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OKRs will never be enough

edge.ceo

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Re: OKRs will never be enough

#81

Post by xboxnolifes »

keredson wrote: post #63
derefr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is almost always the people who "just talk" (managers) that are being measured by OKRs, though. It's just that these managers often respond by relaying their OKRs to their teams and making them constantly-aware-of and responsible-for achieving them, rather than having the OKR be something private to the executive level that informs the manager's decisions , while they continue to run the team the way they would wi…

That's in theory. In practice I knew of no ICs w/o OKRs assigned to them.

I don't know what you mean by assigned to the IC, but at my last job our team's ICs wrote the OKRs for our team.

Re: OKRs will never be enough

#82

Post by esel2k »

I don’t see the difference (and frankly the need for) scorecard and OKR. I am one of these managers the majority of the comments here complain about. I lead teams and tried to implement twice OKR. Overall the idea I think is good as it makes everyone start thinking how to work with outcomes instead of objectives. The major problem is that without a good strategy doing OKRs is very difficult.

But back to the problem: Objectives (O) should be inspirational and Key Results (KR) are measurable outcomes. The examples given for scorecards can very well be KRs. Instead of a weekly review we just use dashboards where everyone can see how we perform and we review OKR quarterly.

Re: OKRs will never be enough

#83

Post by rzzzt »

LambdaComplex wrote: post #34
naijaboiler wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am tired of "you are doing Agile wrong" arguments. I hear it all the time. What's the point of a manifesto that only works when done perfectly right. A manifesto/process that isn't robust to imperfections has no role in a real world, which is always going to be imperfect

There's a difference between "doing something poorly" and "doing the exact opposite of something and claiming that you're doing it" Agile is robust because it ISN'T a strict process.

> Individuals and interactions over processes and tools - and we have mandatory processes and tools to control how those individuals interact

https://www.halfarsedagilemanifesto.org/

Re: OKRs will never be enough

#84

Post by tired_star_nrg »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #51

The problem with all of these performance management frameworks is the same. You start with objectives that make sense and are aligned to the organization's mission. Then you come up with metrics that attempt to measure how successfully those objectives are being realized. Then you tie manager and executive compensation to those metrics. Finally everyone proceeds to game the metrics, often in ways that completely con…

The interesting thing is that in Measure What Matters (the Book about OKRs) they specifically call out _not_ tying bonuses and compensation to OKR results. It’s such a shame that this critical part of the methodology gets lost in the implementation.

Re: OKRs will never be enough

#85

Post by rukuu001 »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #20
mattbuilds wrote: post #10

All these frameworks for managing people matter much less than creating a team of quality people. Think of it like sports. Sure a good manager or coach can get the most of the players on the team. They might even add tactics and play above their level. But when it comes down to it, what matters the most in the skill set of the players. The best coaching in the world isn’t going to help me and my friends beat a pro sp…

In my experience you have it right but backwards: These frameworks exist to help management manage teams without quality people. Scrum/agile is exactly the same thing. The stricter and more documented the process, the more fungible actual team-members are. That's important in places like bodyshops and non-software business where no self-respecting engineer with options would want to work, and places where monotonous…

Scrum is there for the people who’ve never read the Manifesto, and don’t want to.

Re: OKRs will never be enough

#86

Post by tired_star_nrg »

kenjackson wrote: post #2

The business scorecard just seems like it is measuring a set of key results. If it’s a KPI the team is trying to achieve then how is that different than a key result?

In my opinion, one of the best parts of the definition of key results is that when done right, meeting all key results should result in the objective being accomplished. If you can hit all the key results and still not have met the objective, there was an issue in the definition process.

Re: OKRs will never be enough

#87

Post by ocimbote »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #53
tekla wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the same people who think its never worth planning anything are the ones who spend all their time making worthless crap and never get anything done because they think having a goal is beneath them.

I'm an architect (software, not houses). There's a gigantic fucking chasm of difference between architectural design planning and OKRs.

What are your thoughts on some of the trends/buzzwords I find among Architects' communities these days, like "Evolutionary Architecture" or "Just Enough Architecture"?

Note: I don't mean to lower their values by calling them buzzwords, but I truly see a peak of usage in the last 12-24 months, that gets me curious.

Re: OKRs will never be enough

#88

Post by ecf »

By their very nature OKRs are terrible. It’s purely for the benefit of management/executives because they’re asking rank and file employees to go above and beyond their job duty all in the name of squeezing out more performance with the same amount of resources.

Supposedly it’s the leadership’s job of steering the company in the right direction but in the end they throw their hands up and ask the people doing the REAL work to simply do more.

Re: OKRs will never be enough

#89

Post by flappyeagle »

The author gets the headline right: OKRs will never be enough. You need talent. Management talent and individual contributor talent. OKRs are a communication framework. The author thinks you should communicate more detailed information than what OKRs contain by default. Seems fine, but honestly a big nothingburger.

Re: OKRs will never be enough

#90

Post by IMTDb »

mattbuilds wrote: post #10

All these frameworks for managing people matter much less than creating a team of quality people. Think of it like sports. Sure a good manager or coach can get the most of the players on the team. They might even add tactics and play above their level. But when it comes down to it, what matters the most in the skill set of the players. The best coaching in the world isn’t going to help me and my friends beat a pro sp…

> The best coaching in the world isn’t going to help me and my friends beat a pro sports team

No, but a good coach will start with you team, replace single player and get slightly better results. Replace another player and get better results. Rince and repeat until you and all your friends are long gone but your team plays in the NFL.

Being able to detect, attract, nurture and retain talents is exactly what the coach is doing on a daily basis.

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