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Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

economist.com

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Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#81

Post by myself248 »

jl6 wrote: post #7

It’s not surprising at all that the lack of accountability goes right to the top, and it’s tragic that it takes an earthquake to expose the corruption. But Turkey is far from the only country with a corrupt, ticking-time-bomb of construction and infrastructure quality issues. Pretty much every low-to-middle income country has taken the semi-rational approach of cutting corners in order to do more with less. And the h…

"Do more with less" is perfectly fine and rational.

"Do less with more and line my pockets along the way" is the problem.

If customers were _paying less_ for the substandard construction they're getting, okay that's one thing. But if customers are paying more, and they _think_ they're getting sturdy code-compliant construction, but contractors at one or more levels are skimming money and using substandard materials and techniques, then that's a corruption, enforcement, and auditing problem.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#82

Post by [deleted] »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #61
wnevets wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me so much of the vaccine "debate", "no one gets polio anymore, why do I need to get the polio vaccine?"

I mean that is kind of the _ultimate_ goal isn't it? -Vaccinate the population, eliminate the disease in humans -Eliminate the disease in any of its natural reservoirs Once you're certain it's gone why continue vaccination? There's cost to that and those resources can then be dedicated to "active" diseases (perhaps with the instructions for that vaccine archived somehow).

[deleted]

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#83

Post by fragmede »

mschuster91 wrote: post #31
biggieshellz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more due to exclusionary zoning than building codes. There is no reason why we couldn't build, for instance, a boarding house under modern building codes, which would create more affordable housing on the low end. The reason that doesn't get built is that the zoning doesn't allow it.

> The reason that doesn't get built is that the zoning doesn't allow it. The problem is not just zoning. A boarding house simply doesn't generate noticeable income compared to standard residential housing, and with exploding land prices it simply makes no sense financially to cater to poor people.

If only there were some sort of organization that didn't need make a profit and wasn't "run like a business". One that everyone gave money to, for the benefit of all society, to make things better all, but especially for the lowest on the totem pole. If only such an organization existed! It could be in charge of governing the people, and the people could choose who runs it with some sort of choosen-ing procedure.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#84

Post by notch898a »

endemic wrote: post #73
notch898a wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an example https://www.ktnv.com/13-investigates/officials-in-nevada-dem... You're welcome!

> The parcel is zoned for a single-family home. That seems to be about zoning, not building codes.

It's a bit of both. The article specifically mentions the CODE specifies minimum sq ft. You could still put a tiny "house" down if that house had met code. The code is the reason why it was unworkable even for a single unit on a plot.

(and in any case, since the topic was code enforcement, article states "North Las Vegas Code enforcement took action" )

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#85

Post by soperj »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #61
wnevets wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me so much of the vaccine "debate", "no one gets polio anymore, why do I need to get the polio vaccine?"

I mean that is kind of the _ultimate_ goal isn't it? -Vaccinate the population, eliminate the disease in humans -Eliminate the disease in any of its natural reservoirs Once you're certain it's gone why continue vaccination? There's cost to that and those resources can then be dedicated to "active" diseases (perhaps with the instructions for that vaccine archived somehow).

Polio isn't eliminated though. Measles especially is nuts to skip. We don't vaccinate for smallpox because it has been eliminated.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#86

Post by Broken_Hippo »

dmd wrote: post #38
mschuster91 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead. Or fire codes. Related off-topic reminder, in the hope it may save one life one day: please use this comment as a reminder to check upon the status of your smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarms and fire extinguisher. At the very least every room where people sleep in should have a smoke alarm and every room with a furnace (boiler, oven, kitchen,…

> Fire extinguishers should be inspected by a licensed professional every two years I (in an affluent US east coast suburb) called my fire dept's non-emergency line to ask about this once a few years ago, and they told me this isn't something they do. So who does it?

I cannot actually answer your question: I'd probably call back and if they still don't, I'd ask what to do.

What I can give you is the next best thing: A way to self-check. Most fire extinguishers have both an expiration date and a pressure gauge. You want the pressure to be in the green and the date to be in the future. They usually last 10-12 years with proper care, but you still want to regularly check these things.

My source for this: An inspector, who checked the extinguishers for the pharmacy I worked at back then (was employed or contracted by the pharmacy chain). It has been over 10 years, but it doesn't look like this information is out of date.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#87

Post by commandlinefan »

mrlonglong wrote: post #42
INTPenis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only one person should ever take the blame for this. The guy who "lost" billions of dollars from the earthquake fund is the same guy who could have enforced stricter building codes. It's time for the people of Turkey to make their voices heard.

Turkiye, if you please. Turkeys are best enjoyed on the dinner table.

When she was little, my daughter was looking at a globe once and thought it was hilarious that Greece was on top of Turkey - "I don't like greasy turkey, but if that's your thing..."

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#88

Post by vasco »

drorco wrote: post #18
jl6 wrote: post #7

It’s not surprising at all that the lack of accountability goes right to the top, and it’s tragic that it takes an earthquake to expose the corruption. But Turkey is far from the only country with a corrupt, ticking-time-bomb of construction and infrastructure quality issues. Pretty much every low-to-middle income country has taken the semi-rational approach of cutting corners in order to do more with less. And the h…

Cars have a safety rating, I wonder if houses could have the same kind of rating? Would it be a better situation if houses for sale/rent will have a transparent safety rating visible to tenants and contractors could choose whether they build expensive, high safety buildings, or cheaper, low safety buildings? Might sound dystopian, but to me it seems like the preferable solution. I know I live in an old house that wou…

The safety standards are the rating. Someone can build a house for "better than code" and they can advertise that too, but a "rating" here would be the standard that for example a building with X floors needs to follow to ensure it's earthquake resistant, can bear at least Y amoung of weigth, resist to Z winds, etc. The mix of all these things are what become the building standards or "code".

Otherwise to do ratings like you suggest you can only do it to mass produced things, in this case the closest would be mobile homes or prefabs, since you can actually destroy it and see how difficult it was and give it a rating.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#89

Post by myself248 »

mrlonglong wrote: post #55

Just out of interest for the layman, is there anything a non-expert like myself can examine on a building to assess its 'survivability' during an earthquake?

Is it more than 1 story?

Then run, don't walk, away.

Don't do tall buildings in seismic zones without the benefit of an incredible amount of engineering practice, inspections, audits, and enforcement. If you suspect the locals are corrupt, your safest place during an earthquake is a straw hut or reasonable facsimile thereof.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#90

Post by ryandrake »

ethanbond wrote: post #56
shadowpho wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fire extinguishers should be inspected by a licensed professional every two years Really? Do you know _anyone_ who does that? What will the professional do that we don't -- take a look at the charge level, take a look at manufacturer date?

You should call a professional and ask them what else they’d do.

Here's an out there suggestion: See if you have a paintball store near you, call them up, and ask them where they send their air tanks for testing/inspection. Last place I sent my paintball gun air tank to get inspected, they also did fire extinguishers.
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