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Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

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Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#81

Post by mr_toad »

Smoosh wrote: post #27
anonporridge wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was the one where the media reported that because nobody was found in the front seat it must have been the fault of the self-driving feature. And the fact that this was media disinformation won't matter much, because the damage to the Tesla brand and the idea of self driving cars in the public's collective consciousness has already been done, and won't easily be undone by these newly revealed facts. "A lie mak…

Conspiracy theory: Autonomous driving is being undermined by traditional car companies who see that if it is successful, it would hugely change personal transportation and greatly reduce total sales of vehicles.

You don’t need a conspiracy for the media to report that “new thing is dangerous”. Those stories practically click on themselves.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#82

Post by greedo »

hnburnsy wrote: post #67

OT but the NTSB really wants to take the fun out of driving via technology (from the crash report)... >Recently, the NTSB recommended that NHTSA require all new vehicles to be equipped with passive vehicle-integrated alcohol impairment detection systems, advanced driver monitoring systems, or a combination thereof, which are capable of preventing or limiting vehicle operation if driver impairment by alcohol is detect…

I didn't notice a closing sarcasm tag, so I'm assuming you're serious about your "fun" being infringed upon. Too bad. You have no right to drive intoxicated on public streets. Nor to drive at speeds over the posted speed limit. If you want to race, take up track racing. If people didn't act like fools and idiots while driving, there'd be no need for this type of technology.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#83

Post by sowbug »

lalopalota wrote: post #66
brewdad wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by this description. Are they saying the impact caused the driver to be ejected from the front seat to the rear? I'm not sure physics works that way. Are they saying the driver left the front seat and climbed into the rear so that he could blame autopilot when the police arrived on scene?

the commenter said "tossed", the NTSB said "moved". there was no speculation as to why.

The sentence's grammar is vague. The "was" might have been meant to apply to both clauses, so that the driver "was seated" at the time of the crash and then "was moved" during the ensuing mayhem. Or he crawled into the back and died.

The NTSB might have been trying to use neutral language for uncertain events, like how "the position changed" could mean intent or just a force of nature. I don't know what the right interpretation is.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#84

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

Smoosh wrote: post #27
anonporridge wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was the one where the media reported that because nobody was found in the front seat it must have been the fault of the self-driving feature. And the fact that this was media disinformation won't matter much, because the damage to the Tesla brand and the idea of self driving cars in the public's collective consciousness has already been done, and won't easily be undone by these newly revealed facts. "A lie mak…

Conspiracy theory: Autonomous driving is being undermined by traditional car companies who see that if it is successful, it would hugely change personal transportation and greatly reduce total sales of vehicles.

Seems completely wrong to me. Commoditize your complement. If you make using a car cheaper (by removing the labor of driving), people will use cars more.

Also, empirically, traditional car companies are actually investing heavily in self-driving tech. Their capabilities actually surpass Tesla’s.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#85

Post by xeromal »

jo6gwb wrote: post #15

I'm not sure why they don't explicitly write in the report that the driver may have been trapped in the back seat, and was unable to locate or use the mechanical release to escape. While that wouldn't be a contributing factor to the wreck, it would be a contributing factor the the driver's death, and important for Tesla and their passengers to know about. The report states: The frontal impact with the tree resulted i…

Not saying this as a remark to you specifically, just a fun anecdote.

Someone totaled my Model 3 on my birthday a few years ago and my front door was smashed. I smelled smoke and thought I had a battery fire (turns out it was smoke from the airbags). I crawled to the back seat and tried to open my door but it wouldn't open due to power loss. I ended up breaking the window because in my state of mind, I couldn't remember that the manual door override was available. People always say there is a manual backup, but even if it works, it's really hard to remember that during a terrible accident where time is an issue. Luckily I carry a knife in my car with one of those window breaking points.

I can't imagine trying to do that drunk.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#86

Post by ajross »

gamblor956 wrote: post #44
ajross wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they aren't "on record". Go find the cite. One paper had a source saying that it was active within 30 seconds of the collision (which is like 3x longer than the time shown on the video we have). Look, the clearly most likely scenario here is that the driver got confused, overrode the AP, and then failed to maintain awareness as they commanded the sudden lane change. Obviously that's not what people want to hear,…

Tesla has already admitted to deactivating driver assist systems when they detect unavoidable accidents. As for not seeing FSD behavior in that video...I do. It looks like the idiot Teslas I see every morning on my commute, randomly braking and swerving like drunk frat boys.

> It looks like the idiot Teslas I see every morning on my commute, randomly braking and swerving like drunk frat boys.

Yeah, that's what all these arguments always come down to. They start with "safety" and end with simple emotion.

Look, I'm genuinely sorry there are jerks in Teslas near you. But they're just that: perfectly human jerks driving like perfectly normal human beings. Please don't project your hatred of the culture, or Musk, or EVs, or whatever on the safety aspects of the system.

Also: call a friend and get a ride. They're pretty amazing vehicles. You'd be stunned at how fun it is to have a robot drive you around.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#87

Post by gamblor956 »

ajross wrote: post #86
gamblor956 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has already admitted to deactivating driver assist systems when they detect unavoidable accidents. As for not seeing FSD behavior in that video...I do. It looks like the idiot Teslas I see every morning on my commute, randomly braking and swerving like drunk frat boys.

> It looks like the idiot Teslas I see every morning on my commute, randomly braking and swerving like drunk frat boys. Yeah, that's what all these arguments always come down to. They start with "safety" and end with simple emotion. Look, I'm genuinely sorry there are jerks in Teslas near you. But they're just that: perfectly human jerks driving like perfectly normal human beings. Please don't project your hatred of…

It's truly bizarre that you are blaming the humans for the poor self driving by the car.

My coworker gave me a ride in his Tesla 2 months ago, on the roads near SpaceX's facility in SoCal. During the 15 minute ride FSD tried to cross over into the opposing lanes, ran a red, narrowly avoided hitting a cyclist (because the cyclist swerved away to save his life) and failed to recognize half of the cars on the road with us.

It was a terrifying experience. And he said it was not much worse than his normal commute with FSD.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#88

Post by ajross »

gamblor956 wrote: post #87
ajross wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It looks like the idiot Teslas I see every morning on my commute, randomly braking and swerving like drunk frat boys. Yeah, that's what all these arguments always come down to. They start with "safety" and end with simple emotion. Look, I'm genuinely sorry there are jerks in Teslas near you. But they're just that: perfectly human jerks driving like perfectly normal human beings. Please don't project your hatred of…

It's truly bizarre that you are blaming the humans for the poor self driving by the car . My coworker gave me a ride in his Tesla 2 months ago, on the roads near SpaceX's facility in SoCal. During the 15 minute ride FSD tried to cross over into the opposing lanes, ran a red, narrowly avoided hitting a cyclist (because the cyclist swerved away to save his life) and failed to recognize half of the cars on the road with…

Huh. Mine took my kid to diving practice this afternoon. Weird world.

Just please stop with the hate. That's really all I'm asking. If there's data let's argue about data. But once you jump off into "idiot Teslas randomly braking and swerving like drunk frat boys" there's no coming back to rational discourse.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#89

Post by haliskerbas »

gamblor956 wrote: post #87
ajross wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It looks like the idiot Teslas I see every morning on my commute, randomly braking and swerving like drunk frat boys. Yeah, that's what all these arguments always come down to. They start with "safety" and end with simple emotion. Look, I'm genuinely sorry there are jerks in Teslas near you. But they're just that: perfectly human jerks driving like perfectly normal human beings. Please don't project your hatred of…

It's truly bizarre that you are blaming the humans for the poor self driving by the car . My coworker gave me a ride in his Tesla 2 months ago, on the roads near SpaceX's facility in SoCal. During the 15 minute ride FSD tried to cross over into the opposing lanes, ran a red, narrowly avoided hitting a cyclist (because the cyclist swerved away to save his life) and failed to recognize half of the cars on the road with…

My favorite one is when you’re stopped at a red light in a Tesla, and the on screen display shows the stationary cars and features around you bouncing around.

If that’s what it sees when it’s still, idk how to trust it when it’s moving.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#90

Post by ajross »

haliskerbas wrote: post #89
gamblor956 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's truly bizarre that you are blaming the humans for the poor self driving by the car . My coworker gave me a ride in his Tesla 2 months ago, on the roads near SpaceX's facility in SoCal. During the 15 minute ride FSD tried to cross over into the opposing lanes, ran a red, narrowly avoided hitting a cyclist (because the cyclist swerved away to save his life) and failed to recognize half of the cars on the road with…

My favorite one is when you’re stopped at a red light in a Tesla, and the on screen display shows the stationary cars and features around you bouncing around. If that’s what it sees when it’s still, idk how to trust it when it’s moving.

It's just so amazingly frustrating to have these discussions where people get so close to understanding and then willfully turn away.

I mean, try this yourself! Pull up to a stop light, close your eyes, and recite the distances to and orientations of the nearest five or six vehicles. Now read it off the screen. Think you'll beat the car? Really? In fact, no, it's quite clear that the car, with 360 degrees of camera coverage at 30 Hz and no fovea or neck scanning required, has a vastly better picture of its surroundings than the driver. It's not even close.

But yeah, the esimates aren't precise and yeah, they do jump around[1]. You're absolutely correct about the way the modelling works. You're just disastrously wrong about the way that the competing systems perform.

[1] I will grant that there's probably a human factors issue here. In fact the human driver really can't do much to process that display and it's probably best that details like just be left out or filtered down to a minimal subset.

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