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Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

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Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#81

Post by maxsilver »

Maursault wrote: post #67
maxsilver wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Union dues can be half the annual salary Come on, is that really the honest truth? What occupation or union has union dues at 50% of salary? In the US, UAW's dues max out around ~1.5% of salary (or an hourly approximate equivalent), the teachers union maxes out at 1.6% of salary (highest possible dues cap out at $55/month max), the nursing union dues cap out at $65/month, our local teamsters are approximately ~1.45…

Anecdote time. I interviewed for a position that I wanted in the beltway area that paid $70K/yr in the mid-1990s. I had a lot of experience, loved what I did, and personally didn't meet any peers that were as accurate and as fast as I was. The only reason they interviewed me was because they wanted to hire me, and that was the only reason I travelled 400 miles to the interview other than to look for a place to live.…

> (the interviewer told me) "the union dues are $45K/year."

Ok, I understand that this is presumably an experience you had in your life once, but like, could you simply not hold a bad opinion against all labour rights forever, just because one person told you an (pretty obvious) blatant lie one time?

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#82

Post by gruez »

hector_vasquez wrote: post #68
gruez wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change. Isn't that what the state is? It has all of that, plus a monopoly on violence, which a union doesn't have.

Corporations are people, so no, we don't have the state.

Corporations are people insofar as they can conduct business activities and be sued. They're definitely not the same as "people".

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#83

Post by genocidicbunny »

doublepg23 wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If problem employees are the cost of employers being reined in and not abusing employees with no recourse, so be it. All systems have some sort of drag on them, the question is not elimination of that drag, but how much you’re comfortable living with.

This employee and another… lackadaisical employee were both full time. Full time guaranteed more hours, sick pay, accrued paid vacation time, actual healthcare, etc. Pretty cozy benefits for retail work which is thanks to the union. At the same time multiple part time workers, such as myself, would pick up slack or work OT due to these unmotivated workers. It definitely lead to a weird culture.

> At the same time multiple part time workers, such as myself, would pick up slack or work OT due to these unmotivated workers. It definitely lead to a weird culture.

Isn't this part of the problem? It's managements problem to deal with, not yours, and you shouldn't need to 'pick up the slack.' Sure there are times when it makes more sense to just do it, but if it was consistent, and everyone else was picking up the slack, the union wasn't the only problem; Everyone that was constantly enabling this behaviour was at least partially responsible too. Once in a while is fine, but eventually you need to go to management and put your foot down.

And isn't it interesting that if you did put your foot down, it's your union that would also be protecting you against retaliation from management?

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#84

Post by pjmlp »

capableweb wrote: post #7
doublepg23 wrote: post #6

It’s interesting seeing unionization back on the table in the 2020s. I worked at a union retail job for three years and saw the pros and cons firsthand. We had a problem employee who was untouchable regardless if he was completing his job duties (assuming he showed up at all). Eventually this came to a head as he would spend 30min+ in the restroom. To address this they instituted a “log all bathroom breaks” policy _f…

Usually union employees can be fired if there is "just cause". Not showing up for work at all would definitely to considered "just cause" for most unions I've been involved in. Did no one even try to fire him or was he related to someone in a management position? Being in a union doesn't mean you're "untouchable", it just means you can't be fired without hard proof that the worker is not doing what they are hired to…

I find this interesting, because in Europe unions protect everyone (or should in principle), there is no law difference between if someone belongs to a union or not, and if the company decided to be part of union agreements with the government, that means everyone gets to be part of the agreement, regardless of having a union membership card or not.

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#85

Post by redeeman »

Melatonic wrote: post #21

Big companies are now so large that they can influence policy and politicians in a way that it is impossible for the individual to fight back. If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change. Fucking Union!

why cant we just individually decide what we are willing to do? why do we need to mindlessly join unions that tells us what we think?

imagine if you will, that everyone had some personal backbone and responsibility, and had standards for what they would accept. They then communicate this to prospective employers, and would quit if things happen they cannot accept.

if everyone, or majority did this, then companies would be either forced to align, or have no workforce. and IF enough people exists that dont care about working 14 hour shifts 7 days a week, good?

nah, this seems stupid, why should individuals decide? lets rather sign our free will over to unions that by definition simply just exists to shield the "mediocre workers that CLEARLY cant think for themselves"

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#86

Post by redeeman »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #39
gruez wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change. Isn't that what the state is? It has all of that, plus a monopoly on violence, which a union doesn't have.

A union more directly puts power in to the hands of workers than does the state.

thats funny, because traditionally when a company signs with a union, there are semi standardized rates of pay for certain amount of experience and education etc, and then companies tend to go "well this is what we agreed to with the union", and the worker is in a very bad position to negotiate different.

You already have all the power in the world, YOU, the worker, can decide what you're willing to do, and what you demand in return for it. What more could you possibly need?

What kind of logic is being employed here? why are we treating the common worker like they are so retarded as to "obviously need" a union to make the good decisions for them?

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#87

Post by ClumsyPilot »

nebula8804 wrote: post #78
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not something that would worry me as a negative if I was a union member on $15 an hour. Also they've been raising cost of goods for the last five years without any pressure from the unions. While wages of Apple store staff have been falling in relative terms. So I do not believe anything would change.

No but if they raise the cost in just the UK that is effectively a tax on everyone in favor of the unions. There is little to no loss on Apple's part in the long run.

So you believe that Apple could raise prices without hurting their sales, but are currently not doing so and are leaving money on the table?

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#88

Post by [deleted] »

nebula8804 wrote: post #76
inferiorhuman wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You spent your whole comment focusing on their self driving claims while ignoring the rest of the company. The rest of the company? You mean the senior management that lord elno raided in an attempt to prop up Twitter? The VW ID4 has numerous complaints about their software and reliability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsb2XBAIWyA https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/software-update-bric... https://old.reddit.c…

Clearly you are not going to be convinced because you came into this conversation with a conclusion and backtracked from that just like the other poster. That is a common problem when discussing both Tesla and Apple. Both companies evoke a lot of emotion and "foaming at the mouth" type responses. Both companies have continued track records of producing stellar engineering. But for anyone else reading this try to sepa…

[deleted]

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#89

Post by TaylorAlexander »

redeeman wrote: post #86
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A union more directly puts power in to the hands of workers than does the state.

thats funny, because traditionally when a company signs with a union, there are semi standardized rates of pay for certain amount of experience and education etc, and then companies tend to go "well this is what we agreed to with the union", and the worker is in a very bad position to negotiate different. You already have all the power in the world, YOU, the worker, can decide what you're willing to do, and what you…

You seem to be missing the whole point of a union - “collective bargaining”. If one worker at UPS says “give me air conditioning in my truck or I refuse to work”, management will just fire them. If every worker at UPS says the same thing, the company is put in a serious position and must negotiate.

This has nothing to do with how smart the workers are. A single worker does not have the power that a union has. A single worker cannot make demands of the company with any real negotiating power, unless it is a very small company with specialized needs.

For what it’s worth I’m one of those people that is able to negotiate for themselves. I’m a highly skilled robotics engineer and I have to constantly tell recruiters to stop emailing me. I’ve negotiated a position that is exactly what I want to be doing. A dream career. But I’m in a tiny organization, it is basically just me and one investor. The project would be over if I left, so I have a lot of negotiating power. But the same is not true for Amazon warehouse workers or UPS truck drivers or coal miners. I’m sure there are workers who perform better than others but this doesn’t really lead to a huge change in ROI for the company, so even the best UPS truck driver has very little negotiating power. That’s where unions matter.

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#90

Post by Maursault »

maxsilver wrote: post #81
Maursault wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote time. I interviewed for a position that I wanted in the beltway area that paid $70K/yr in the mid-1990s. I had a lot of experience, loved what I did, and personally didn't meet any peers that were as accurate and as fast as I was. The only reason they interviewed me was because they wanted to hire me, and that was the only reason I travelled 400 miles to the interview other than to look for a place to live.…

> (the interviewer told me) "the union dues are $45K/year." Ok, I understand that this is presumably an experience you had in your life once, but like, could you simply not hold a bad opinion against all labour rights forever, just because one person told you an (pretty obvious) blatant lie one time ?

Are your experiences with a union so different? There are a lot of places that will not hire you unless you are a union member. It has become common, and it is very much like a cartel operates. There was a time when unions brought relief to the worker from employer abuse, and increased wages and improved safety standards. But that time is long, long gone, and the focus has turned entirely to money and time off. The only reason for a union to exist today is solely for it to exist. While you get your head around that syllogism, consider that while labor unions are designated non-profit, it says nothing about what its officers can earn.[1] Generally the practice seems to be to financially take advantage of the larger pool of recent members for the benefit of the smaller pool of long-term members while fleecing large employers of profit and growth incentive.

[1] https://freebeacon.com/issues/report-union-presidents-paid-c...

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