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We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

newscientist.com

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Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#81

Post by cudgy »

chimeracoder wrote: post #32
pessimizer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism becomes a lot more palatable to majority populations as long as minority populations are kept to a minimum. With a reasonable expectation that the recipients of help look like you, helping starts to seem more like an obligation than an imposition.

> Socialism becomes a lot more palatable to majority populations as long as minority populations are kept to a minimum. You're getting downvoted, but you're broadly correct. There's a lot of research showing how more homogeneously white populations are more likely to support leftist or socialist policies (policies, not affiliation) than people of the same demographics who live in more heterogeneous places.

How does that concept reconcile with Mississippi having a low homelessness rate and providing housing at a high rate for those that need it despite a non-homogenous population?

The key according to this article is the cost of housing, not implied racism.

https://brownpoliticalreview.org/2021/12/being-poor-alone-do...

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#82

Post by millimeterman »

vkou wrote: post #52
bscphil wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly confident by "the left" they mean "wealthy California liberals", so basically, not the left. If you think that by virtue of being the most "left leaning" cities, San Francisco and Los Angeles must be left wing, it's not that far fetched. Unfortunately this idea is undermined by actually having lived in one of these cities.

Indeed. The 'Liberal' cities are socially liberal, but economically conservative, so they are full of initiatives like legalizing marijuana and mushrooms and rainbow-painted crosswalks and naked bike rides, while at the same time, pushing back hard on any economic solutions to housing. (Conservative areas are generally both socially, and economically conservative. I know someone will mention Utah's housing first prog…

I wonder what "economically conservative" means here. Usually I would expect someone economically conservative to be against government intervention and prefer market-oriented solutions to problems, but the people you're talking about tend to want the opposite.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#83

Post by wizofaus »

gsk22 wrote: post #80
tst01234 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you implement them nation-wide the only result would be people coming from abroad to enjoy housing-first social services. Unless you are saying the first step towards solving homelessness is the prevention of illegal entry and the mass expulsion of illegal immigrants.

It is orders of magnitude harder to cross the US national border than between states or counties. Either way, I don't understand this idea that we shouldn't care for Americans because what if some non-Americans got in?

I get the impression there's a fair chunk of America that feels that way about any sort of government-provided assistance (though more accurately I guess it's "assistance is fine as long as it's to people I approve of).

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#84

Post by frosted-flakes »

LarryMullins wrote: post #79
frosted-flakes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because people are free to migrate anywhere within a country's borders, so cities with lots of social services get overrun with a disproportionate amount of people wanting to use them. These sorts of policies need to be implemented at a nation-wide level for them to be truly effective.

"Thing that fails in the small scale needs to be implemented on an even bigger scale" is a hard sell. How do you convince a state that thinks California is a hell hole that they should implement Californian policies in their own state? This doesn't seem possible to me. If there can be a politically practical solution at all, I think it must be one that can be demonstrated to work in the small scale.

If I put myself on a starvation diet and still starve to death, it doesn't follow that the solution to hunger is to eat even less. Obviously, the solution to homelessness is homes.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#85

Post by lostdog »

DantesKite wrote: post #50

Serious question: Why didn't this approach work in San Francisco? https://www.city-journal.org/san-franciscos-housing-first-ni...

I wouldn't take that article as the absolute truth. It's true that homeless people are not generally the best caretakers of themselves, but SROs are also gross because of landlord neglect. The article seems to suggest that some people are too obnoxious to be housed, but it wants to hide that conclusion from its readers. A real comprehensive solution to homelessness also needs to deal with the "difficult" people in a useful and humane way. It also needs to be realistic, so we cannot just make peoples' lives worse and hope that punishment causes them to behave more usefully.

If I were solving the problem, I would do it something like this:

- A place to sleep needs to be provided for everyone, regardless of mental health or drug usage or general intolerableness.

- Housing for the homeless should be grouped into small places with a few units each that are well spread out.

- Housing should be guaranteed for at least the month, so you are not waiting in line every single day.

- There should be a quota per city and per census tract of required homeless housing, including the richest parts of the city. If your neighborhood meets the budget, then they can sweep for tents and there are consistent cleaning services. Otherwise it is open camping.

- Some of the housing should be allocated as drug free, with regular drug testing for residents who choose these sites. Ditto for alcohol free. Ditto for more restrictive quiet hours. In non-drug-free housing, your still forbidden from open drug usage in common spaces, but no testing. We should balance each restriction according to demand.

- We need solutions for handling mental health problems. That can include levels of conservatorship, such as having your door locked for the night but being allowed to leave during the day. We need lawyer or social worker representation, so that people are not restricted unnecessarily.

- We should aim for individual rooms and bathrooms. If that's not economically feasible, then application criteria should exist for better sleeping locations, including how long you've been a resident in the city and disability status.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#86

Post by Gigachad »

rib3ye wrote: post #45
chizhik-pyzhik wrote: post #3

This article is a good overview of the research about treatment-first vs housing-first approaches. The last paragraph is pretty clear on the real difficulty: >The major obstacles to resolving homelessness remain ideological. It is politically hard to sell the idea that people who take drugs or are disruptive should get free housing – even when the evidence shows that is actually what works.

My observation is that it's more politically contentious to decide where to put these free homes. We have a lot of them in the SF Bay Area (some legit, many not), and they all attract activity that "I don't love" having kids around. I try to fight my internal NIMBYism, but clutter horde and verbal assaults are where I draw the line.

Iirc the Victorian government in Australia decided to buy individual apartments in high rises to put drug addicts in resulting in the buildings becoming so unsafe that the original occupants had to sell and move somewhere else. Turning them in to radical anti public housing activists so they don’t have to move and lose a load of money again.

Imagine saving up for ages to buy a nice 3 bedroom apt to move in with your family with and then a few years later your kids are being threatened by an unstable meth head in the elevator forcing you to move and lose most of your wealth in the process.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#87

Post by diogenescynic »

I'd be for this but if after giving them a place THEN the laws were actually applied and they were not allowed to do drugs in public spaces and other anti-social behavior. However, a lot of the folks in San Francisco who appear homeless actually have some hotel or unit the city has provided and they just hang out in public all day and cause problems.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#88

Post by diogenescynic »

Flatcircle wrote: post #53

easier said than done

A lot of them don't even want homes. They just want to be able to use drugs and hang out wherever they feel like. There are plenty of interviews on YouTube/Instagram/TikTok with homeless people saying exactly this.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#89

Post by pksebben »

LarryMullins wrote: post #22
lupire wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the left" has a lot of people in it.

A lot of people? I've been informed by knowledgeable Europeans that a left wing doesn't exist in America at all!

a couple generations of ostensibly left individuals got co -opted and hoodwinked into playing team politics, because they grew up in a time when the economy worked better in general and the effects of politics in general were more subtle.

Additionally, the two party system has effectively declawed the vox populi and made the barriers to change very, very large.

This means that until we're out of boomers (and a significant portion of Gen xers) the isn't going to be a possibility of the sort of critical mass necessary to make the systemic changes we need to reconnect the will of the people with the behavior of the government / media / business machine.

Although, if we make it that far, I'm sure the well organized entrenched upper class will have a whole new set of tricks to try. It's very difficult to properly organize against them.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#90

Post by Ancalagon »

m3kw9 wrote: post #70

Since homeless people are homeless because they can’t afford a place, a solution is to prevent more homelessness by allowing people that are about to be homeless seek govt subsidies for rent. It’s another way to lower homelessness.

Subsidies will just cause further rent-seeking unfortunately
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