ASML Q4 2022 financial results • Hacker News Board

Re: ASML Q4 2022 financial results

#81

Post by nwiswell » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 12:42 AM UTC

seper8 wrote: post #79

nwiswell wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a development system. The purchase prices of the actual manufacturing systems are never disclosed, since the negotiated price differs between customers. In any event the HVM systems will cost significantly less. This similar article says $150M, as I claimed, and again the actual customer price would be less: https://content.techgig.com/technology/intel-to-get-chipmaki... > ASML's most advanced machines in cur…

How are you so confidently wrong so often? Wonder if you have ever heard of ASML before reading this news article. Just stop it.

Has it occurred to you that I might work in this industry?

The other guy had a six month stint in manufacturing two decades ago.

Re: ASML Q4 2022 financial results

#82

Post by nwiswell » Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 12:47 AM UTC

seper8 wrote: post #80

nwiswell wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact it is quite easy! This is a solved problem, the stage is moved those minute distances using piezoelectric actuators. Moving hundreds of microns accurately is actually a harder problem, since that requires traditional lead-screw style stages. The two strategies are used together to create a stage that can move macroscopic distances quickly (e.g., die to die), but also make minute adjustments quickly to ensure…

Again, you have to manufacture and assemble all the components for the machine to work. The reason only one company in the world can do it is not because it is easy. If it where easy other companies would be able to imitate it, but they cant. This is why ASML has a profit margin of 50%. This is why companies order these machines years in advance. There are and have been many companies that have built airplanes. There…

> Again, you have to manufacture and assemble all the components for the machine to work.

And, yet again: that is not the hard part.

The reason why ASML is the only company which sells EUV tools is because it is the only company which spent the tens of billions of dollars on developing the technology, not because it has magical manufacturing methods! There are many companies that build WFE tools. Nikon sells ArF excimer immersion litho tools, the manufacturing of which is similarly difficult. The thing that distinguishes EUV is the light source, the optical path, the non-transmissive optics, etc, and the difficulty of resolving all of the related technical challenges that introduces (pellicle heating, out of band flare, aberrations, Sn redeposition, resist outgassing, etc). Not the assembly.

If you work at ASML, you should know this. More specifically, you would not try to imply that the actual assembly requires 10nm precision. Are you an intern?

Re: ASML Q4 2022 financial results

#83

Post by tooltalk » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 12:41 AM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #72

tooltalk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't really have any chip-making equipment supply-chain of their own; neither does Taiwan or South Korea. I think that 10 years to EUV timeline is a bit too ambitious considering that it required ASML about 20-30 years to develope and commercialize (with support of the industry, TSMC, Samsung, and Intel). Unless ASML is allowed to license their EUV to China and all 600+ suppliers who make high-precision lens…

10 years optimistic but PRC in position to create indigenous semi supply chain. After elevating semi to first-level dicipline in 2018, PRC is spitting out 30k IC graduates per year. They're still about 200k short, ~520k/720k out of what IC talent white paper estimates PRC needed for semi industry. I wadger that's comparable to total direct semi industry talent globally, which is really effort from a handful of countr…

There is a lot of wishful thinking there.

Re: ASML Q4 2022 financial results

#84

Post by yywwbbn » Thu, Feb 02, 2023, 7:49 AM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #69

yywwbbn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need for exaggeration. But.. Well clearly the last couple of years were not great for China compared to 10 or so prior to covid.

Based on which facts?

Slowing economic growth?

Extreme lockdowns?

Rapidly aging population in large part because of idiotic lunacy that was the one child policy?