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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#81

Post by tptacek »

godelski wrote: post #78
zzzeek wrote: post #71

I can't believe these comments, what is wrong with you people? if you are a highly paid technology worker, when you go to service establishments where people are working hourly and are desperate to work 40-50 hour weeks just to pay their rent and feed their kids, you *tip*. *generously*. the US has an insanely out of control income inequality issue that is very intractible and structural. If you are so fortunate as t…

I'd rather just increase the minimum wage. Why do this pick and choose thing? If the minimum is not enough then it isn't enough for __everyone__.

Servers in fine dining restaurants make much more than the minimum wage on tips. $25-$30/hr isn't a crazy high amount for a server to be making; $50-60k/yr is also a thing.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#82

Post by bscphil »

pirate787 wrote: post #19
exabrial wrote: post #2

Yes. If you business wants to collect a "tip" up front, before services rendered, it's not a tip (Doordash, Instacart, etc). If 100% of the proceeds don't get straight to the employees, but some end up in the pocket of the business, it's not a tip. This last one is going to be to hear, but if you pay your employees below mimimum wage and allow for tips to make up the difference, well..... Always tip, in cash, direct…

I worry if I don't tip, they will vandalize my food. It's a hostage situation. I limit my use of the services because of it.

Most places allow you to give specific instructions to the driver. It's intended for things like "gate locked, text ### when you arrive" or something to that effect. But I bet you could say something like "will tip cash upon arrival" and it would have the intended effect, maybe even better than a tip in advance.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#83

Post by ntr-- »

> Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed

Here in AU we call that "wages".

Having to do quick maths while under social pressure and the threat of having your service quality degraded to make up for an employer or state being unwilling to pay workers enough to live might be called "coercion", but certainly it is externalising costs onto the customer.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#84

Post by notfromhere »

tptacek wrote: post #76
godelski wrote: post #30

One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well t…

Tipping is a system in which customers explicitly, optionally, and variably share some of the cost of labor. It has the features of allowing individual patrons to modulate the labor subsidy they provide, based on their current price sensitivity, the value they place on warm fuzzies (don't dismiss this!), the relationship they want to build with the business, and the service they perceive themselves to be getting. You…

Except many other industries don't have tipping and the price of labor is just built into the cost.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#85

Post by temporallobe »

If we’re bot careful, this could “tip” in the wrong direction, where consumers will actively rebel against tipping, and I am nearly there.

I was just in Europe and it was refreshing to eat in restaurants and never have to worry about tipping. If a meal was €50, that’s exactly what I paid and not a cent more. Even though prices in many places were more expensive than in the US (also considering the USD to EUR exchange rate), eating out ended up being a lot cheaper than in the US in the end.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#86

Post by Larrikin »

tptacek wrote: post #76
godelski wrote: post #30

One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well t…

Tipping is a system in which customers explicitly, optionally, and variably share some of the cost of labor. It has the features of allowing individual patrons to modulate the labor subsidy they provide, based on their current price sensitivity, the value they place on warm fuzzies (don't dismiss this!), the relationship they want to build with the business, and the service they perceive themselves to be getting. You…

The existence of restaurants, barber shops, delivery services, all over the world in first world and developing countries indicates it's possible to run a business successfully without relying on charity or variable pricing models.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#87

Post by detaro »

notfromhere wrote: post #84
tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping is a system in which customers explicitly, optionally, and variably share some of the cost of labor. It has the features of allowing individual patrons to modulate the labor subsidy they provide, based on their current price sensitivity, the value they place on warm fuzzies (don't dismiss this!), the relationship they want to build with the business, and the service they perceive themselves to be getting. You…

Except many other industries don't have tipping and the price of labor is just built into the cost.

That's not a counter to anything tptacek listed?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#88

Post by notfromhere »

boomchinolo78 wrote: post #80
tkuraku wrote: post #38

I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).

What? Who is harmed? Are we to pretend all waiters do an equally good job? Good service gets good tips, bad service, not good. It's just an incentive system. The only reason it starts to breakdown is because there are really cheap people out there who will skimp on the tip and then complain when waiters treat them like shit. If you are a regular at a place and you tip well, they'll spoil you.

Should we tip doctors then? Surgeons? Software developers? Are we to pretend all professions do an equally good job?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#89

Post by Pxtl »

crtified wrote: post #40

Is this a thing in countries other than the USA?

Yes. Here in Canada it's a couple percent points less (15-20%, I here it's higher there) and servers have a proper minimum wage, but tipping is still expected here.

And the pandemic has shifted things and now everybody's got tip options on the takeout touchpad... I'm iffy on that. It was one thing when everything was shut down and so takeout was a fallback for restaurants with a lot of staff, but that's over.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#90

Post by tptacek »

Larrikin wrote: post #86
tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping is a system in which customers explicitly, optionally, and variably share some of the cost of labor. It has the features of allowing individual patrons to modulate the labor subsidy they provide, based on their current price sensitivity, the value they place on warm fuzzies (don't dismiss this!), the relationship they want to build with the business, and the service they perceive themselves to be getting. You…

The existence of restaurants, barber shops, delivery services, all over the world in first world and developing countries indicates it's possible to run a business successfully without relying on charity or variable pricing models.

Cost sharing isn't charity.
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