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Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

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Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#81

Post by bradizbad »

jrockway wrote: post #45
notjonheyman wrote: post #13

You think restaurants are bad... you should see services like UberEats and DoorDash drivers. I have had orders cancelled by the driver because they found something that tipped higher despite me tipping $7 for something down the street less than 1 mile from my house. I have also tipped $20 only for instructions to be ignored where I put my gate code, unit# and ask for it to just be dropped off at my door step but the…

Isn't it peak capitalism to find the market price for food delivery by bidding? Too low of a bid, the limited resource goes to someone else. My biggest complaint are services that don't show the driver the tip until after they deliver. I want them to know!

Bidding is fine and will drop process and balance out long term, but seeing the tip before delivery creates the bad incentives described in other comments i.e. canceling an accepted order for another with a higher tip or not following instructions. I know I've been peeved after waiting 30 minutes only to find out my food isn't coming.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#82

Post by hervature »

LarryMullins wrote: post #62
hervature wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only if the employee has earned more than $5.12 in tips. For what it's worth, I know many illegal aliens making $+20/hour in tips. Minimum wage here is not a problem.

It becomes an issue for waitresses who consistently cannot get tips; the law says their employer has to make up the difference, but in practice such people don't last long in the business. If a waitress is consistently unable to get enough tips to clear minimum wage, there's probably a good reason for it and they're just not cut out for the job. Consider that single 20% tip on a $40 order once an hour is enough to cl…

You're basically describing the system as it is intended to work. If a business cannot survive without paying someone minimum wage, we've decided as a society that it is not worthy of existence. On the other end, if the person sucks at the job and is costing the business money, I don't know why there is an expectation the person keeps the job. I certainly don't receive that benefit.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#83

Post by LarryMullins »

gambiting wrote: post #48
LarryMullins wrote: post #12

Make no mistake, tipping continues in America because most Americans like the system. If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table. If enough people hated tipping, restaurants that don't have tipping would eventually out-compete those that do. They may yet do so, but presently most of the pub…

As someone who visited America on a business trip - my biggest shock was when we went to a restaurant, and the server we had was downright rude(and it wasn't even just my observation, our American hosts also agreed with this). So at the end of the meal, I said - well the server was rude, that means we don't tip, right? To which our American hosts went "no no, that would make you look like a dick - just tip less, like…

I think the reaction from your American hosts was either unusual, or they privately disagreed with your assessment of the server's rudeness. Maybe that is a restaurant they wanted to return to later and didn't want to burn bridges.

I don't hesitate to refuse a tip if the server is truly rude, but I'll also not return to that restaurant for a long time. This has only happened a handful of times in my life. If the service is neutral then I'll leave a neutral tip, usually 15% unless the total is low and rounds up to a nice whole number.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#84

Post by LarryMullins »

hervature wrote: post #82
LarryMullins wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It becomes an issue for waitresses who consistently cannot get tips; the law says their employer has to make up the difference, but in practice such people don't last long in the business. If a waitress is consistently unable to get enough tips to clear minimum wage, there's probably a good reason for it and they're just not cut out for the job. Consider that single 20% tip on a $40 order once an hour is enough to cl…

You're basically describing the system as it is intended to work. If a business cannot survive without paying someone minimum wage, we've decided as a society that it is not worthy of existence. On the other end, if the person sucks at the job and is costing the business money, I don't know why there is an expectation the person keeps the job. I certainly don't receive that benefit.

> If a business cannot survive without paying someone minimum wage, we've decided as a society that it is not worthy of existence.

An appeal to the decisions of society? I'm not sure that's the argument you're looking for; American society has decided that it works differently for waitresses.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#85

Post by saurik »

gambiting wrote: post #25

"Customers looked at the higher prices ($25 for the chicken instead of $21, $17 cocktails instead of $14) and ordered fewer and less-expensive items, even though they were paying exactly the same amount for them by tacking 20% onto the check at meal’s end." You know what, I worry about this sometimes. We think that we're so evolved and advanced race - that we have poetry and literature, modern medicine and rocket sci…

This assumes everyone is tipping the same, "fair", unified rate; they aren't, though: people who tip more--for a variety of reasons that might have nothing to do with the wait staff--are subsidizing the prices for people who tip less. I wrote more about this in my adjacent comment below:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34459678

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#86

Post by jitix »

thatwasunusual wrote: post #20

...in America. Tipping is the standard in America and other 3rd world countries. The rest of the world should just get used to it and stop complaining.

> other 3rd world countries

Which countries? I’m super curious since I have work/school friends from all over and afaik it’s mostly just a US thing due to federal minimum wage set to less than $3. And Canada just follows suit.

Yea tips exist in other countries but not the regimented 15-18-20-25% and is usually only given for large groups at a fixed rate.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#87

Post by Kranar »

treeman79 wrote: post #49
gambiting wrote: post #25

"Customers looked at the higher prices ($25 for the chicken instead of $21, $17 cocktails instead of $14) and ordered fewer and less-expensive items, even though they were paying exactly the same amount for them by tacking 20% onto the check at meal’s end." You know what, I worry about this sometimes. We think that we're so evolved and advanced race - that we have poetry and literature, modern medicine and rocket sci…

Burger Kings Third-of-a-Pound failed because people thought it was less meat then a quarter pounder. Because 4 is greater than 3.

It was A&W and it's almost certainly BS. The only source for this was a single restaurant that hired a marketing firm to identify the reason for the failure. The marketing firm conducted a single focus study, whose methodology remains unknown but reported that one participant in the study asked why they should pay more money for a smaller product.

Let me tell you something about marketing firms, many of don't exactly hire competent statisticians or people with a rigorous scientific background to investigate matters, and I doubt the situation was any better back in the 80s. Even today I've seen such firms ask leading questions, push people to give certain answers, have incredibly biased or non-random focus groups, or many other very basic mistakes.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#88

Post by likpok »

One other problem is tips are more tax-efficient for restaurants. A restaurant that charges more and pays more in wages has a higher revenue (but not profit). There are taxes and regulations that scale on revenue that don't allow for offsetting wage deductions, so going no-tip can increase other expenses.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#89

Post by Kon-Peki »

twoodfin wrote: post #54
rcme wrote: post #8

I think there is a 3rd possibility in how tipping ends: people get sick of tipping and stop doing it. It seems like every single transaction asks for a tip these days. I tip heavily, but even I am getting weary of tipping so often. Most of the time, it feels like the tip shouldn't be necessary; the employers should be covering the cost of the employee. If people get used to declining tip prompts, it's possible that w…

Especially post-pandemic, I've come to view those flip-around screens as an opportunity for direct, voluntary, progressive income redistribution, or price discrimination, if you like. Paying an extra couple of bucks for falafel or a slice of pizza really doesn't mean anything to me, it presumably means a good bit more to whomever's behind the Square terminal.

I've become so cynical; I assume that by the time the card processor and Silicon Valley take their cut, the employee is left with a few extra pennies.

I'm way less likely to tip when I see a flip-around screen. I hate them.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#90

Post by ghaff »

hotpotamus wrote: post #64
exogeny wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the day, I used to oversee a lot of usability research for a well-known travel engine. Every single time, people would choose the lowest possible base price. It did not matter if you explained to them how uncomfortable it might be, any add-on fees they'd occur, quality of product, or literally anything else. All that mattered was the first number they saw. I don't know if it's a uniquely American thing, but t…

Hidden fees are a strategy as old as time - what's uniquely American is the lack of regulation regarding them. Look at something as simple as sales tax - in the US, that's not included in the price on the shelf, but in most of the developed world it is. It's not like there's some centuries old custom at work there - it's regulation.

There are a couple of different things.

Are there hidden fees that most people don't know about? (Most people know about sales tax.)

Do a lot of people just ignore the fact that they're going to have less legroom and won't be able to reserve a seat if they can get a lower price?

Those are different things. The former is a dark pattern. The second just means a lot of people are very price sensitive.

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