Amazon job cuts: Read the memos • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#81

Post by revlolz » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:06 PM UTC

theRealMe wrote: post #4

Headline is confusing. It makes it sound like there will be 18k new layoffs, but this is information that has been public since November and the cuts happened two days ago. (Or at least the bulk of them did)

This article was late to the game therefore headline is garbage. Amazon laid off 18k ppl in the most clusterfuck way. They had an article leaked about the wave 1 in November that impacted some 8k to 11k and then this weds the total was brought up to 18k. The emails from the article were sent to Amazon employees on weds the 18th after Amazon employees spent all of the holidays and January stressed wondering "am I going to be laid off?"

No new layoffs, but the 18k is the collective total and it's being spread out so long because of Amazon leadership incompetence and world wide labor laws differing.

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#82

Post by robswc » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:06 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #67

jaqalopes wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unionization is the correct response here. The incentives of company leaders simply don't account for workers' desire to not lose their jobs. The only way to change this is for workers to change said incentives--by organizing. Of course, easy for me to say as a freelancer. I'm definitely not trying to say unionizing tech would be easy. But it certainly is simple, at least conceptually.

> Unionization is the correct response here That makes sense on the face of it, but if you look back over the other professions that have unionized (steel workers, auto workers, truck drivers), the lives of the actual workers always seems to have suffered post-unionization.

Not directly related to Unions... but look at salaries for SDEs in Europe compared to the US. You can almost 2x-3x a salary for the same job. A large factor is that European companies don't take risks. At least, compared to the US.

https://www.levels.fyi/companies/amazon/salaries/software-en...

In fact, almost any innovative/high-skilled job pays a fraction compared to the US. It is much harder to innovate in Europe.

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#83

Post by denimnerd42 » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

jonp888 wrote: post #25

cj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do mass layoffs work in places like the EU? I know it's much more difficult to fire people in the EU, but is there an exception if it's done as part of a layoff? The only real solution I can think of is regulatory in nature (e.g. requiring paying out 6 months pay during a layoff, which might make companies think twice before "hiring ahead of growth") Because let's face it, "hiring ahead of growth" is the real pro…

Some of the differences in Germany would be: 1. The minimium notice period for termination of employment is between 1 and 3 months. 2. The employer must select which employees to lay off depending on social factors(age, do they have young children or other dependents, are they disabled etc.) and not based on performance ratings. 3. If the company is laying off staff, but also at the same time hiring people with a sim…

In the US the WARN notice requires 60 days. But that's why you see 2-3 month severances and no notice as it's considered an alternative.

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#84

Post by michaelcampbell » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

eganist wrote: post #3

Super interesting seeing companies grow like wildfire and overspend as returns for investors skyrocket, and then as the market swings downward, they buoy their stock prices a bit by just as quickly cutting heads. The inverted accountability scheme for leaders doing this is another perverse enabling factor; I've complained about this before, but that tends to lead to flames about why founders etc. can't have ownership…

> Why unions are a political matter is beyond me;

My take is because unions facilitate less profit for C-levels, who then buy/rent lobbyists to bribe, errr, "persuade" politicians to enact laws or regulations or whatever to keep unions out.

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#85

Post by screwturner68 » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

lp4vn wrote: post #44

Nobody can convince me that big corps are not taking part this "trend" of firing people with the purpose of rehiring them later and keep the compensation of the workforce in check. As many comments have already pointed out, all these companies are sitting on a huge cushion of money, and if you have money the best moment to invest is during a crisis. Companies realized a long time ago that they should find ways of low…

It's always been a big game of follow the leader, one tech company lays off 5000 workers then a next company lays off 5000 workers because if it's good for company A it must be good for company B. It's no different than when Yahoo told all their workers they had to come into the office and all the tech companies tried to drag their workers back into the office, they just didn't want to miss the trend. In a year everyone will be hiring again and companies will be screaming about needing more skilled (and cheaper) workers but for now it's just the semi-annual culling of the herd.

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#86

Post by georgemcbay » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:12 PM UTC

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #57

lp4vn wrote: post #44

Nobody can convince me that big corps are not taking part this "trend" of firing people with the purpose of rehiring them later and keep the compensation of the workforce in check. As many comments have already pointed out, all these companies are sitting on a huge cushion of money, and if you have money the best moment to invest is during a crisis. Companies realized a long time ago that they should find ways of low…

That's an interesting point of view. It would make economical sense for big corps to act as a labor market cartel, and the fact that they are all laying off together is a suspicious coincidence.

> It would make economical sense for big corps to act as a labor market cartel

Wouldn't be anything too new:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/04/24/306592297...

As is too often the case, the cost of getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar are dwarfed by the savings over time so no reason to think they will avoid doing similar things in the future.

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#87

Post by wcunning » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:15 PM UTC

Is there a good tracker of layoffs in tech with a breakdown of how many were software vs marketing vs service/warehouse/ancillary workers? I'm curious what the software engineer availability glut scale might be at the moment...

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#88

Post by js8 » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:17 PM UTC

elforce002 wrote: post #51

Interesting. I cannot separate what the Feds said regarding inflation tbh. On one side, the government was gloating over the fact of low unemployment numbers, on the other side, you have the Feds saying with no shame whatsoever they need to low inflation numbers by raising interest rates and orquestrate moves to layoff people with the objective to lower the demand for goods and services. This looks like a coordinated…

There is an excellent interview with Clara Mattei on The Majority Report, about her book The Capital Order. She has a similar point, historically supported.

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#89

Post by moneywoes » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

js8 wrote: post #88

elforce002 wrote: post #51

Interesting. I cannot separate what the Feds said regarding inflation tbh. On one side, the government was gloating over the fact of low unemployment numbers, on the other side, you have the Feds saying with no shame whatsoever they need to low inflation numbers by raising interest rates and orquestrate moves to layoff people with the objective to lower the demand for goods and services. This looks like a coordinated…

There is an excellent interview with Clara Mattei on The Majority Report, about her book The Capital Order. She has a similar point, historically supported.

Have a link?

Re: Amazon job cuts: Read the memos

#90

Post by finikytou » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #14

brookst wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think these people would have been better off if tech had carried net fewer heads the past couple of years? Having an extra 100k employed for two years is worse than those jobs just never existing?

Aside from the money, I'm quite glad my job was cut, in hindsight, but only because Amazon handled it so well: They gave us time to sort out a new position. I'm already much more excited about my new gig, and for the right reason (not $). I'm not sure a union would have helped there, but I'm not opposed. Amazon tried to make hay while the sun was shining, and it didn't work out for all depts. It happens.

did you know in advance your job was cut??? because most people did not. some of those people left everything 1 month ago to build a new life in a new country. and for having done that a few times in my past it includes using some of your own money to move / sell things cheaper and obviously for people having to come back to lower wage country where it is harder to find a good job (because tech is not a huge sector like in the US) then it become horrible if you have debts or loans. especially if you left a good job for growing at FAANG