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Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport

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Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport

#81
post #70

ATC recordings, plus a diagram more or less to scale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N1gDSZJ5s0

Interesting, because it's clear from the recording (but not the article) that the taxi instruction was read back correctly, just not followed correctly.

Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport

#82
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each plane costs more than $150 million, plus at least 300 lives could have been lost. Damages probably close to a billion at least

Each human life is worth approximately $10 million [1], so you're in the right ballpark. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life

$10 million is not what is stated at your link.

"In Western countries and other liberal democracies, estimates for the value of a statistical life typically range from US$1 million—US$10 million; for example, the United States FEMA estimated the value of a statistical life at US$7.5 million in 2020." [1]

That's also not the meaning of Value of Life, which is a statistical evaluation. On a commercial plane there are almost certainly multiple people whose individual Value of Life projections exceed $10 million.

In many other cases, the value of life calculation for the very pilots of a commercial flight is less than $10 million.

This all goes to show that this calculation is not for what "each human life is worth". This is a statistical evaluation for determining what would need to be paid to an individual to engage in a dangerous activity or to be paid to a survivor after a person dies from an activity. When someone decides to work at a 7-11 in a crime-ridden area for a greater pay compared to a 7-11 in a safe family area, they perform a type of Value of Life calculation.

[1] From the first section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life

Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport

#83
post #79
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing certifications, installation and maintenance inspections and certifications, auditing, etc. To put it into some relatable context, a simple electrical switch that you might grab for a few bucks at your local Home Depot would cost at least several hundreds of dollars because of all the red tape that must be satisfied for safety reasons. Safety isn't cheap.

The extra cost for safety is reducing safety because it's causing this not to get installed. Maybe it's worth having a worse system that actually is there.

Unreliable systems aren’t there when you need them.

Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that there is a shit ton that is and always has been happening in this area. Air safety is the leading sector in standards for safety training. We are relying on checklists, procedures, surveillance tech, simulation training, certification, re-certification etc. etc. No other industry has put in as much thought into these problems. Except for maybe the military. Source: I had the opportunity to me…

Space flight is the one industry with a better track record I’d say.

[deleted]

Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport

#87

> (“Shit! Delta 1943 cancel takeoff clearance!”) This isn't a real quote, is it? I was surprised to read ATC losing their composure like that, but in the linked video/audio there is no utterance of Shit! that I can hear.

It’s definitely on there

Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are the lights expensive?

I don't think the other answers are getting at the meat of it. Consider that those red lights functioning is the only thing keeping hundreds or thousands of people from getting killed. What sorts of safety and durability requirements would you impose on them? What sorts of maintenance and training requirements? If nothing else they need to hold up in every weather and temperature big airports exist (-80ºF to +150ºF)…

These lights would not be the only thing keeping hundreds from being killed. ATC clearances over the radio are the primary thing; this is a secondary system.

Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport

#90

> (“Shit! Delta 1943 cancel takeoff clearance!”) This isn't a real quote, is it? I was surprised to read ATC losing their composure like that, but in the linked video/audio there is no utterance of Shit! that I can hear.

It’s definitely on there

Oh you're right. The tweet linked in the article doesn't have it but this version does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N1gDSZJ5s0

vs https://twitter.com/RossFeinstein/status/1614613794470100995

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