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Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

thewalrus.ca

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Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#82
Back then I was one of the promising kid. My teacher had even prepared a few scores for me to practice for the entrance exam of a very good music academy. But I decided to drop it.

Reasons:

- I don't really enjoy the whole stuff very much. It involves a lot of boring practices. I still remember that back in the day, when everyone was enjoying holidays and weekends I had to practice 4+ hours every day. My parents were very pushy about this so very quickly it's a complete chore for me, except for occasions.

- I hate memorizing stuffs. But for music performance you got to memorize most of the stuffs you are going to perform. I was very nervous about this. I won a few minor prizes but never enjoyed the process. I only wanted to play for myself, not for an audience.

- I was not that talented anyway. There were tons of promising kid and I was just one of them.

BTW I never practiced piano again afterwards. It has been over two decades. I might pick it up again and hopefully can play some Well Tempered Clavier again (I managed to play a few of them before I dropped it) -- although I stopped practicing, I have grown up enough to enjoy Bach, the most romantic composer in the world.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#83
post #28
post #5

For me, it was the content. I stopped playing piano at 14, because my teacher really wanted me to play classical. Not a fan. I came back to piano later by myself when I wanted to play video game music. Then I wanted to play stuff from movies, pop songs, etc. I started watching interesting videos on reharmonization and tried that on some pop hits to interesting effect. I wouldn’t say I “stopped” completely, but my rel…

You might be interested in ragtime video game covers. There are lots of videos of a ragtime piano player called Tom Brier who *sightreads* video game music notation. That is, he plays a score while reading it for the first time. He's incredibly skilled, it's awe-inspiring. https://youtu.be/ffwVKDP8nzQ

sadly he got into an accident/some other medical issue a few years back and hasn't really been seen in public since

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#84

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

Early learning should be focused on musicality and improvisation, not refined performance technique. Historically, even music in the so-called 'classical' tradition was mostly improvised. It's only in the late 19th century or so that technically virtuosic-performance playing of old repertoire became the only known standard of quality; but what those pieces of music were intended for originally was something quite dif…

I agree. The idea of perfectly reproducing a performance note for note may have been impressive before recorded music, but now it's the boring default. When people talk about a "song" they really mean a particular recording of a single performance played metronomically over a grid.

People are starved for the human touch in music that comes for free with any live performance. In most of the US there is so much focus on mega pop stars executing perfectly planned shows with exorbitant ticket prices that there is little exposure to real improvisation. My hope is that people jamming together for fun can regain its place as a cultural staple in this century, but it seems like the barriers are higher than ever.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#85

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

I can relate a lot to what you said. I practice piano (jazz improvisation), and I have mix of love and hate with practicing. You basically spent lots of energy for little to no improvement at all lol, playing scales, arpeggios, etc. And if you stay like 1 month without practicing you waste a lot of time trying to go back where you stopped. It's like trying to go up an escalator that's going down, if you stop you come…

Your dexterity is lost without practice, but I find that the new licks, chord progressions and other ideas you add to your repertoire to be used in improvisation stick around. This to me is far more valuable than the dexterity which I can reacquire in no time. My jazz voicings today are far better than they were at a time when I practiced a lot more piano.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I didn't touch the guitar again until picking up that mag, so it was all lost, including my nascent ability to read music.

Musical and muscle patterns that form in your mind at a young age don't disappear, they just wait for their time

Would 8 lessons be enough to build that muscle memory though? It is pretty remarkable, though, how long muscle memory can last. I haven't played piano seriously since university except for occasionally noodling on my mom or sister's piano when visiting, and old repertoire seems to flow out of my fingers. Maybe a bit more rusty than when I was taking lessons in my teens, but still there somehow 20 years later.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#87

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

I think learning software has been transformative in this space, at least for baseline technical skills and coordination. Hopefully in the future the software will be able to give you feedback on stuff like tone and posture as well.

How many kids will performance in philharmonics because they played Trombone Champ?

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#88
I started playing bass guitar when I was 11. My father told me no when I asked if I could play bass.

Since my parents were divorced I was able to talk to my Mom about it. She got me a cheap used bass. I was so happy- it felt like I was meant to be a bass player. I played it every day. Wrote songs, learned songs. Eventually I earned a B.M. and had a music career.

Growing up in a family that didn’t play music, I’m not sure how I feel about pushing music lessons on my kids. No one made me do it, but no one could stop me either.

I just try to have gear available for them to mess with. If they get that drive to be a musician, I’ll be there to help.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#89

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

People always look at the end results, want it, but don't see how much work and practice it takes to get there. It's always the motivation to overcome the difficult frustrating parts in the beginning, that is the hardest part. This is true for most anything: learning an instrument, learning how to program something the first time, learning how to draw art, many different crafts and sports...

But as you improve, it's like it becomes more and more self-sustaining. At some point, it stops feeling like a chore and actually feels kind of pleasureful to just pick up and play something, anything, for a few minutes.

That said, I've been playing guitar for 20 years now, I have certainly improved and enjoy playing, but there's always room for improvement. And to continue improving, still has some of a frustrating element to it. I suppose that's just how it is when it comes to improvement. No pain no gain, as some people say.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#90
Here's the main issues that I see replicated in some comments here:

1. Judgment hinders learning and many teachers judge some sounds as terrible, bad, or wrong. Acceptance of all sounds is the key, which requires deep deprogramming for many, and doing it just in the context of music is harder than doing it in daily life. Unlearn judgment in both supports unleashing in both contexts.

2. Forcing material or a certain learning progression is a denial of autonomy. This also hinders learning. Much easier to joyfully engage with chosen material in the ways one wants. If someone wants to learn a specific song, I help them learn it. If they want to learn by watching a video of someone playing that song over and over, sometimes playing along, sometimes not, I'm right there with them.

3. Sticking to culturally familiar sounds. This is a way to teach music within a box of sorts. Diversity of exposure widens perspectives and allows for more creativity. Playing Sun Ra for students and saying "this is also music" is a way to widen their perspectives easily.

4.Shallow listening training. Learning to mindfully listen is an important skill, especially for learning music. Teaching mindfulness practices (not necessarily mindfulness meditation, unless ready to help them through trauma...get some EMDR buzzers and scripts and practice on yourself first) such as mindful walking, looking at trees and contemplating different ways to interpret "looking at the space between branches," and mindful breathing/eating/pooping can help students develop the ability to focus (helps with rhythm & keeping time), become more connected with their body, and allow for better recall of music. Deep listening is a form of practice.

5. Set ways of doing things, like how to hold and play the guitar. When the 2-year old we care for was asked one day to show how to hold the guitar that was as long as their body, they showed how they could play it in 5 or 6 different positions/postures, some of which involved it being upside down. Nobody taught them that and nobody told them "that's not how you hold a guitar!" They learned through free exploration. My first time watching Marshall Allen play saxophone was a few years ago. Watching him scrape the keys with the back of his hand made me realize how stuck I was in my ways of thinking about technique.

6. Insisting on keeping time. This is a notoriously difficult thing for many people with ADHD and the music teaching cultures I've encountered have always insisted on the ability. I've been told most of my life nobody would ever play with me if I couldn't keep time. I'm willing to play with people who can't keep time, so this is no longer true. Do not teach it any longer and recognize that people playing out of time in experiments will eventually sync up. If you stop the music before then, it keeps them from getting to practice resync'ing, which keeps them stuck. Acceptance is key here, too.

The 4-year old I conceived and nurture plays every instrument ťhey find and sings their own tunes with their own lyrics. This is without pushing them toward any of it. They can jam on the drums with people who've been playing music for years and who are jamming around a fire. I've been teaching myself music for 6 years after 19 years of not playing because I was stuck in anxiety and automated judgment, shame, and frustration around playing music.

I look forward to the way music is typically taught changing drastically in the coming years so we can start hearing much wilder stuff than what we're getting now.

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