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Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

mattbruenig.com

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Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#81

Post by [deleted] »

conjecTech wrote: post #18
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #3

> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.

Sounds great to me. Especially considering you aren't paying any taxes on your returns when they come in the form of deferred costs. That's equivalent to a pre-tax return in the mid-teens. You won't find that in most asset classes these days, and definitely not with the risk profile of solar.

[deleted]

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#82

Post by Rebelgecko »

perfectstorm wrote: post #25
bushbaba wrote: post #13

I paid ~15k to install solar in 2019. After tax rebates it was ~11k. I’m generating ~12MWh per year. My break even period is less than 5 years. I’m based out of California, and generate excess energy. My electric bill is now just ~$100/year.

if you generate excess energy, can you store it for a later time when you need more energy (presumably summer time)?

Some (all?) electric companies in CA do net metering, where you can sell them your excess electricity at any time and storage essentially becomes their problem.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#83

Post by pkulak »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #27
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #3

> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.

That is technically true, but why is no one asking how and why his electricity bill is $223 at minimum, plied higher since the bill was only reduced by that amount. Also, “subsidies” are really just a quaint term for “made the working and lower middle class that can’t pay for such exorbitant luxuries pay for it through taxes and inflation”. I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t un…

Unless you walk to that restaurant, it will absolutely be subsidized. 6 percent of all state and local spending is on roads. And that's not counting any negative externalities, which subsidies should be reducing (like, for example, a solar installation subsidy), not increasing.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#84

Post by UmYeahNo »

mrits wrote: post #44
jackmott42 wrote: post #17

My parents had panels installed on their house, it is a large single story house in Austin, Texas, which is pretty ideal (more surface area for panels, less volume inside vs two story). No trees in the way either. They haven't had to pay anything for electricity yet. And that is with an EV charging in the garage. We have panels on our roof, a two story house, also in Austin Texas, not so lucky as my parents. With the…

In Austin I'd like to see some studies on solar vs tree coverage. My empirical evidence would suggest that great tree coverage alone keep the inside livable on 100f+ summer days. On my house without trees I could barely keep some of the rooms cool.

That makes me wonder if the installation of solar panels on a roof act as "shade" similar to partial tree coverage in some way, since in many cases they add a thin cushion of shaded air between the panel and the roof. I wonder if that provides any meaningful shade or temperature reduction.

Not making an argument either way, I just hadn't really considered if this was a factor until I read your comment.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#85

Post by mnw21cam »

rektide wrote: post #19
daniel_reetz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you using to estimate the raw panel cost?

The author linked the parts. The link to the Longi LR4-60HPH-360M panels shows a $200 price (x 21). I had to google for the inverter, a Solar Edge SE6000H-USS3, to find a price ($2000 x 1). > I ended up getting a 7.56 kW solar panel system consisting of 21 LONGi panels[1] and 1 Solar Edge inverter[2]. [1] https://www.solaris-shop.com/longi-solar-lr4-60hph-360m-360w... [2] http://www.solardesigntool.com/components/dis…

There might have been solar optimisers in there as well. They're one per panel, and they're expensive, but they tend to be pushed by installers.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#86

Post by jeffbee »

Nathanael_M wrote: post #43
jjeaff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially considering most modern panels are expected to still have a good amount of life left in them after 25 years. (80% or more}

Sorry, life after 25 years? That's WAY higher than I thought. That's incredible.

The idea that PV panels become trash in a decade is a lie promulgated by oil companies. According to NREL, reputable panels degrade as little as 0.1% per year, which means they will still be above 90% of rated output after 100 years. The trashiest panels NREL has tested degrade at 1.1% per year which would put them at 75% rated capacity in 25 years.

https://www.nrel.gov/pv/lifetime.html

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#87

Post by maerF0x0 »

>Realizing that the solar company was in quite the pickle insofar as repossessing the panels would require costly legal actions on top of paying people to take out the system, I just waited on the payment. They would contact me periodically asking me to make payment and offering to help me get approved for a new loan. But I just ignored all of that.

Seems pretty unethical tbh. The solar company delivered, but now this guy is going to refuse to pay? Sure he did later, but not without blackmailing them for $5k discount.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#88

Post by irrational »

We had solar panels on our last house. Even in the cloudy PNW, we generated enough electricity to cover 100% of our electrical needs. And, the monthly cost of the loan payment was about $30 less than our previous cheapest monthly electrical payment.

Unfortunately our new house doesn't have a roof configuration that allows for solar panels. I wonder if new home architecture and alignment will change to make solar panels work better?

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#89

Post by 1123581321 »

whycombagator wrote: post #60
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #3

> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.

I never usually see it factored in as a cost but if a roof is replaced or a leak forms under the panels (or a panel) then the cost of removing/re-installing the panel(s) surely isn’t free. So that cost should also be included

There is typically a ten year warranty on the installation that covers leaks. An installer checks for roof age as part of qualification so you don't put panels on a roof that will age out before the panel warranty (typically 20 years, sometimes 25.)

Roof leaks that are accidental are covered by insurance, and the work to remove or replace the panels is part of that. Typically you adjust your home insurance coverage by the value of the panels when you install them to make sure everything's covered.

That just leaves the chance that the installer work will be good enough to make it ten years but not twenty, and the insurance won't cover the damage. I don't know the odds of that. It seems like it would be infrequent, but what numbers do you use?

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#90

Post by Dries007 »

atonalfreerider wrote: post #56
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #3

> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.

I'm not affiliated, but Solar Wholesale is a DIY that can be 1/4 the cost of hiring a contractor: https://www.solarwholesale.com Even the wiring is DIY. Most people think this requires a lot of skill, but you are just adding an input to your panel board on your house.

Unfortunately where I live (Belgium), this kind of options result in a disqualification of any subsidy. They always require that the install is done by a pro with some certificate (even though DIYing electrics is actually legal here).

I understand that there are reasons for this, but as someone with the qualifications but not the certification, I hate that I have to pay someone else to do things like this.

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