What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle? • Hacker News Board

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#81

Post by UncleEntity » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 3:22 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #66

nemo44x wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will just raise shipping costs and therefore raise the cost of goods. By charging trucks more it creates a regressive tax effectively. By subsidizing them this is a way we utilize socialism to ensure lower wage people have access.

That's why move the freight by rail.

They move a bunch of freight by rail, nobody wants to pay someone a bunch of money to drive it when they can just throw it on a train.

And trains are relatively time inefficient so people in Maine couldn’t have their fresh Californian strawberries a couple days after they are plucked out of the field.

Maybe people don’t deserve to have fresh produce but that’s another discussion altogether.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#82

Post by djbusby » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 3:24 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #47

wkat4242 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands we don't use concrete plates. Just asphalt, usually the highly absorbent type. It wears very quickly and ice buildup damages it so it gets replaced a lot. But this is the advantage of a small country with many people. Good infrastructure.

In the PNW we commonly use porous asphalt (so the rain doesn't build up and cause hydroplaning) as well. A few interstates still use concrete. I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with weather and related maintenance requirements. I-90 being a pretty good example.

I5 through all of king county is concrete plate. The boundary at Pierce and Snohomish is clear. Odd.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#83

Post by toast0 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 3:27 AM UTC

loeg wrote: post #73

coryrc wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Seattle and almost every single road I drive on is at least concrete base. Even if I couldn't tell for other reasons, I've seen enough sections replaced for water or gas line maintenance; I've never seen one without concrete, from my side street all the way to the freeway.

Older Seattle area roads tend to be concrete; newer roads are more frequently asphalt. It was definitely very popular here in recent memory — I could name tons of concrete Seattle roads off the top of my head — but my impression is it is no longer as popular in new construction.

There's some real old roads that are bricks under asphalt. That's a trip. Some of the real steep stuff like Bell or Blanchard at Western, IIRC.

PS if you like brick roads, there's a big (flat) one out in Redmond I accidently drove on once that someone made a nice post about https://www.dadlogic.net/old-red-brick-road-redmond/

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#84

Post by unixhero » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 3:45 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #34

unixhero wrote: post #32

A forum! How refreshing.

Looks like a discourse.org one

Ahh discourse... such a good engine. Only matcher by nodebb

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#85

Post by lamontcg » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 3:48 AM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #8

Gordonjcp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one bit of jointed concrete road that I know of in the UK, a few miles where I live on the A90 near Laurencekirk. It's bloody awful, like driving over smashed paving slabs. In my big old Range Rover with its off-road air suspension and massive reinforced tyres it's a noisy and uncomfortable couple of miles. In a modern vehicle with ultra-low profile tyres and incredibly stiff "sporty" suspension it must be li…

The US interstate moves insane numbers of huge ass-trucks that weight one billion metric pounds each or something. Anything less than airport-grade concrete dies instantly, and then dies again when it invariably freezes to -40° Kelvin, because fuck physics when shit gets cold.

> huge ass-trucks

https://xkcd.com/37/

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#86

Post by bombcar » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 3:51 AM UTC

UncleEntity wrote: post #80

WalterBright wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason for the interstate trucks is the taxation system that punishes railroads for owning their right-of-way. The trucks cause by far the most damage to the highways, but taxpayers subsidize that with the gas tax. Trucks also do not pay property tax on the highways. Long haul freight should be done by loading the semi's trailer onto a flat car, and picking it up near the destination. Another myopic government de…

> Trucks also do not pay property tax on the highways. Why would they pay property tax on a highway they don’t own? What they do pay is a per mile tax that is collected at the pump and divided up to the states through IFTA. Every single mile a truck travels is taxed by some state even if it’s just using it for personal use like shopping at Walmart.

Taxation of electric trucks is something that hasn’t been resolved quite yet.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#87

Post by wyldfire » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 3:51 AM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #78

jasonhansel wrote: post #15

> Maybe they didn’t use the best grout and that’s wearing away faster than the surrounding concrete. IIRC this is one of the disadvantages of concrete (as opposed to asphalt) road surfaces: it's very hard to repair them in ways that don't degrade over time. edit: You can tell this road is "real" concrete because of the visible seams between each slab. For an ideal repair, they would have had to replace every affected…

Interesting. I’m GBA too. What are our roads made of?

Most highways in the US that I've seen are either concrete or asphalt.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#88

Post by loeg » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:15 AM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #83

loeg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Older Seattle area roads tend to be concrete; newer roads are more frequently asphalt. It was definitely very popular here in recent memory — I could name tons of concrete Seattle roads off the top of my head — but my impression is it is no longer as popular in new construction.

There's some real old roads that are bricks under asphalt. That's a trip. Some of the real steep stuff like Bell or Blanchard at Western, IIRC. PS if you like brick roads, there's a big (flat) one out in Redmond I accidently drove on once that someone made a nice post about https://www.dadlogic.net/old-red-brick-road-redmond/

Yeah, sometimes you see the brick where the asphalt has worn away. There's a bunch of that in Pioneer Square, I think.

I've actually been out to the Redmond brick road before (on a bicycle -- it was unpleasant).

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#89

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:39 AM UTC

UncleEntity wrote: post #80

WalterBright wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason for the interstate trucks is the taxation system that punishes railroads for owning their right-of-way. The trucks cause by far the most damage to the highways, but taxpayers subsidize that with the gas tax. Trucks also do not pay property tax on the highways. Long haul freight should be done by loading the semi's trailer onto a flat car, and picking it up near the destination. Another myopic government de…

> Trucks also do not pay property tax on the highways. Why would they pay property tax on a highway they don’t own? What they do pay is a per mile tax that is collected at the pump and divided up to the states through IFTA. Every single mile a truck travels is taxed by some state even if it’s just using it for personal use like shopping at Walmart.

Yes, they do pay a use tax. As noted elsewhere in this thread, the tax is far too low to account for the damage caused by the weight of the truck.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#90

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:40 AM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #76

WalterBright wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interstates are a constant stream of freight trucks. Trucks cause 4x the pollution of trains. Trucks spew tire and brake dust all over the countryside. Most of the maintenance on highways are the result of trucks, and this is paid for by taxpayers.

Trucks are what get goods to their destination. Rail can only get you so close.

Right. For a 3,000 mile journey, 2,998 of those miles can be by rail with the trailer set on a flatcar. The mile in and the last mile the trailer is picked off the flatbed and hooked up to the semi.