The future our grandchildren deserve • Hacker News Board

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#81

Post by isthisthingon99 » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:32 PM UTC

pseudo0 wrote: post #71

> Our work on education goes back to the foundation’s earliest days, and our focus on improving math skills goes back almost as far. Although there are many factors that affect a student’s trajectory, the evidence shows that it’s extremely important for them to succeed in math. For example, those who pass Algebra I by ninth grade are twice as likely to graduate from high school and more likely to go on to college, ge…

Not to offend you but it sounds like you've never taught an economically disadvantaged child. The first step is they need to feel that they can do it, already a tall order. Learning disabilities are not that relevant here.

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#82

Post by Xelynega » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:36 PM UTC

stephc_int13 wrote: post #51

aschearer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not entirely convinced that all of this is really what is advertised. What does that even mean? Be explicit. Right now I'm left to assume you think he's implanting 5G chips in children... More to the point, barring huge changes in this country, what else can we expect of the ultra rich? What Gates is doing is nearly best case scenario...

I have absolutely no theory about what they are doing. I have no idea. The question is this: why should we give this foundation more credits than what SBF was trying to achieve? How do we know this is not bogus? What about secondary effects? What about the potential induced corruption around those super-rich foundations?

My answer is we don't, and anythung a foundation like this puts effort towards is going to be biased(I've yet to see the gates foundation take up a social cause that would affect Microsoft's bottom line).

The whole idea of charities is that were letting private entities control the "altruism dollars" in society, the only reason to do this is to prevent the public from deciding the course of the funds and to add a layer of obscurity to make it harder for the public to see where the funds are going.

To the people responding to you basically saying "charities are good, what do you mean?", why is it that we have to donate money to the gates foundation to provide foreign aid, isn't that one of the things we expect our government to do and pay taxes towards?

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#83

Post by Xelynega » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:40 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #59

stephc_int13 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have absolutely no theory about what they are doing. I have no idea. The question is this: why should we give this foundation more credits than what SBF was trying to achieve? How do we know this is not bogus? What about secondary effects? What about the potential induced corruption around those super-rich foundations?

What if what if what if? Look at what the foundation has done and judge them on that. You seem to be looking for a reason to judge them based on nothing other than your own suspicion. The most (unfounded) ulterior motive that I can imagine is that they want to help poor countries prosper so that they grow the pot and keep our markets going up. That benefits everyone though so it's hard to knock it.

Doesn't Microsoft have a partnership with OpenAI, who's product is essentially "getting people in third world countries to create datasets to train their models"? I don't see how funneling the people in these countries into low-paid jobs that require a lot of unpaid work to accomplish(finding tasks on mechanical Turk isn't paid) "benefits everyone".

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#84

Post by syntheweave » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:40 PM UTC

29athrowaway wrote: post #65

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>contrary to wealth, power is a zero sum game Not sure I agree. Power over other people maybe, but there is also power to affect the nonhuman environment. A modern farmer's power to alter his immediate environment is similar to a feudal lord's.

There are dimensions of power. A corn farmer is ruled by the government, the market, the seed corporations, the fossil fuel industry, the different machinery manufacturers (vendor lock-in), the banks, etc.

Or alternately, the anecdote of Alexander and Diogenes. Wherever you voluntarily become the student, the teacher has the power - even if the teacher has nothing material.

The materialistic power ladders are just visible and highly competitive. People who don't want to bother with it usually gravitate towards something more esoteric.

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#85

Post by eloff » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:43 PM UTC

xmprt wrote: post #79

eloff wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to invest the money you don’t intend to spend now.

That's true but that saying breaks down when you're investing money into and benefiting technology that makes the world less open and sustainable and then proceed to talk about everything you're doing to make the world more sustainable.

Does it? Maybe indirectly. The stock price of a company doesn’t directly translate to its power in the world.

But even then the cases you’re talking about are probably not black and white. So the answer is likely a further “maybe partly, maybe indirectly”.

Then if you take the profits and put it towards doing good in the world, have you done net good? Probably.

It’s complicated.

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#86

Post by PicassoCTs » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

beachy wrote: post #68

RunSet wrote: post #60

Our grandchildren deserve a future without the vendor lock-in and anticompetitive behavior that gave Bill Gates the fortune he is currently using to attempt to whitewash his legacy.

Bill gates was a ruthless competitor in business who pushed things to the limits, the original alpha geek. Not unlike thousands of other business leaders over the centuries. Holding a candle of bitterness against him so long after he moved on to an admirably altruistic life and actively redistributed his wealth says more about you than about him. (Spoken as someone who has experienced brutal commercial outcomes thank…

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-...

This guy deserves all the bitterness he can get. Here is the reason his wife divorced him. Now go and whorship somebody worthy.

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#87

Post by Xelynega » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

programmarchy wrote: post #11

Improvements upon math education, ultrasound technology, and construction technology all sound like very reasonable, practical goals. Perhaps the most radical goal is gene therapy, but also the most exciting and sci-fi.

Math education: Microsoft hires hundreds of math graduates yearly, an excess of those would be beneficial to Microsofts bottom line.

Ultrasound technology: Microsoft has a "digital health" department that would benefit similarly from more graduates in the field.

Construction technology: Microsoft has existing partnerships in construction technology, and would similarly benefit from an increased number of graduates in the field driving down wages.

Why are these things that benefit Microsoft the "future our grandchildren deserve"? It seems to be a pretty biased view of the future.

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#88

Post by sbuk » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

Xelynega wrote: post #77

beachy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill gates was a ruthless competitor in business who pushed things to the limits, the original alpha geek. Not unlike thousands of other business leaders over the centuries. Holding a candle of bitterness against him so long after he moved on to an admirably altruistic life and actively redistributed his wealth says more about you than about him. (Spoken as someone who has experienced brutal commercial outcomes thank…

Why is it that his "admirably altruistic life" never seems to conflict with what Microsoft's goals are, if the line is that he's "changed since he started Microsoft". If that were the case, wouldn't it make sense that his new "altruistic" ideals conflict with the "ruthless competitor" ideals that Microsoft holds?

Two monks were walking when they met a swift but shallow stream that they needed to cross. There was a young woman stood on the bank who also needed to get across, but she was scared, so she asked the monks for help. The monks had taken vows of chastity which included never touching a woman and the younger monk refused. The other, older monk, picked up the young woman and carried her across, gently placing her down on the other side.

As the two monks carried on with their journey in silence, the younger monk blurted out, "You took a vow of chastity! You promised never to touch a woman! How could you have just picked her up?"

The older monk replied; ”My brother, I put her down a few miles back. Why do you carry her still?”

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#89

Post by Xelynega » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

slothtrop wrote: post #17

mc32 wrote: post #2

Provide education, jobs and contraceptives to those with high reproduction rates —pop growth will slow thus putting less pressure on the environment (see China vs India). Less encroachment on nature, less sequestered carbon released. Help to modernize poor countries' energy grids and electrify the hinterlands. Get people in rich countries to give up cheap disposable stuff and give up energy consuming entertainment (i…

The first paragraph is all you need. Instances of consumerism that are a problem can be dampened through tax or other means, but it's a moot point because environmental encroachment scales with demand. If demand is stagnant (because the population is, and has already been lifted out of poverty enough to demand things), then there's no question of sustainability for basically anything, except certain finite resources.…

It's all you "need" from one perspective, but if the topic is "the future our grandchildren deserve" than a criticism of consumerism that seeks to eradicate it is relevant(IMO) and isn't equivalent to minimizing it with "tax and other means".

Re: The future our grandchildren deserve

#90

Post by Xelynega » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 9:49 PM UTC

ctoth wrote: post #27

mc32 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Endless growth is not attainable on this Earth. Japan hit the inflection point some decades ago. They are doing alright. They still innovate. In some respects it's stagnant, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It does mean that offspring will not perpetually think "they will (potentially) earn more than their parents" and that's okay. We need to accelerate this in places that are still growing, slow them down but…

It is an excellent thing, then, that we are not simply stuck on this Earth.

Oh yea, why criticize consumerism when we can just destroy planets and leave them behind to look for more resources to consume?