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No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

thenewatlantis.com

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Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#81

Post by 37 »

crooked-v wrote: post #5
treeman79 wrote: post #2

Been noticing a lot of articles on people being advised to be euthanized for depression and other concerns.

What articles, exactly?

In the sixth paragraph of the second section, the article links to the following examples:

[0] https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/dying-for-the-right-to-live/

[1] https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-disabilities-nears-...

[2] https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-chemical-sensitivit...

[3] https://www.thestar.com/2022/assisted-death.html

[4] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investig...

[5] https://nypost.com/2022/08/22/canadian-soldier-with-ptsd-out...

[6] https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wh...

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#82

Post by wernercd »

msla wrote: post #75
wernercd wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It sounds like thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering." Why is that your take? Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? or some other take? We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair...

> Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? Because nobody's made that case. Making a case requires evidence. Not handwaving and appeals to movie plots. > We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair... As long as we're trading conspiracy theories, the person who reported that was paid off by the right…

"Nobody's made the case"

Tons of people are making the case.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanisin...

"Since then, things have only gotten worse. A woman in Ontario was forced into euthanasia because her housing benefits did not allow her to get better housing which didn’t aggravate her crippling allergies. Another disabled woman applied to die because she ‘simply cannot afford to keep on living’. Another sought euthanasia because Covid-related debt left her unable to pay for the treatment which kept her chronic pain bearable – under the present government, disabled Canadians got $600 in additional financial assistance during Covid; university students got $5,000."

So again: Why isn't the take that Thousands are dying to soon to save money?

"As long as we're trading conspiracy theories,"

Other than my "conspiracy" theory being main stream media reported and a simple statement backed by fact. Not your cockamamey bullshit:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-vete...

"According to the report, the veteran called VAC seeking support for PTSD when the employee brought up medical assistance in dying, or euthanasia, unprompted."

Oh wait... that's the wrong one. That's not the Wheelchair one... hard to find the right one in the mountain of evidence.

https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthani...

"A paraplegic former Canadian military member is ripping her government, which offered to euthanize her after she complained about delays having a wheelchair lift installed in her home."

If main stream, reliable news sources are 'conspiracy theories' then I'm not sure what you consider real news.

"my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does."

Other than the fact that my "theory" has backing evidence... and yours is shit pulled out of your ass. You really need to learn what a conspiracy theory is and when real life evidence makes it not a theory.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#83

Post by dalyons »

bhawks wrote: post #80
goatsi wrote: post #45

>One of the greatest reasons for concern is the sheer scale of Canada’s euthanasia regime. California provides a useful point of comparison: It legalized medically assisted death the same year as Canada, 2016, and it has about the same population, just under forty million. In 2021 in California, 486 people died using the state’s assisted suicide program. In Canada in the same year, 10,064 people used MAID to die. 70%…

Cancers vary significantly in prognosis. Canada has over double the number of deaths due to lung cancer and nearly double the deaths due to colorectal cancer compared to California. Essentially cancer looks different in California than Canada. This makes drawing conclusions that there are thousands suffering unnecessarily extended end of life experiences difficult. https://cancerstatisticscenter.cancer.org/#!/state/C…

Why though? Not a loaded question genuinely curious. More smoking up north?

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#84

Post by bhawks »

dalyons wrote: post #83
bhawks wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancers vary significantly in prognosis. Canada has over double the number of deaths due to lung cancer and nearly double the deaths due to colorectal cancer compared to California. Essentially cancer looks different in California than Canada. This makes drawing conclusions that there are thousands suffering unnecessarily extended end of life experiences difficult. https://cancerstatisticscenter.cancer.org/#!/state/C…

Why though? Not a loaded question genuinely curious. More smoking up north?

Lung cancer == smoking.

Colorectal is significantly effected by diet, physical activity and obesity.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#85

Post by mikem170 »

mmastrac wrote: post #37
smitty1e wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are people forced to live if they don't want to? As with abortion, why must I cheerfully pay taxes for policy affecting individuals that's morally objectionable?

I have bad news for you. You will never gain the ability to pick and choose what your taxes fund, and the other people paying taxes have entirely different sets of important things that they wish to fund, and different sets of things that they are horrified that their taxes are supporting.

> You will never gain the ability to pick and choose what your taxes fund

This is interesting to think about, though. Ideally people shouldn't be forced to pay for things they are opposed to, right? Or do we just take it for granted that is morally acceptable to be forced to do something if 51% of our representatives at some level of government say so?

What if wars were funded voluntarily? Perhaps we wouldn't have so many offensive wars. Wouldn't it be proper for drivers to pay all their associated costs, like a use tax? And property taxes if you want police and fire protection? Maybe opt-in for things like social security? Etc.

I understand this would be a significant change, and come with its own problems, and might not work for everything, given the way we currently govern ourselves. But doesn't the sentiment behind the idea has some merit, selling people on the idea of funding public works instead of forcing them? Maybe not everyone pays for everything, but does that need to be a deal breaker? If an idea doesn't have enough support to be voluntarily funded, perhaps it's not a good idea?

I guess that I like questioning assumptions...

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#86

Post by 37 »

htag wrote: post #4

> The Canadian Association of MAID Assessors and Providers, the leading organization of Canadian euthanasia providers, has sat on credible evidence by its own members that people are being driven to euthanasia by credit card debt, poor housing, and difficulties getting medical care. Did I miss the actual concrete evidence this is being purposefully being used to reduce certain populations?

Not sure if I understand, but the article gives a number of examples, such as:

> Mary knows that she could control her pain if she could take vitamin pills, eat a special diet, and go to physiotherapy. She can’t afford it. “Mary identifies poverty as the driver of her MAID request,” Gibb-Carsley writes on a slide accompanying her talk, emphasizing the. “She does not want to die, but she’s suffering terribly and she’s been maxing out her credit cards. She has no other options.”

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#87

Post by mumumu »

dalyons wrote: post #83
bhawks wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancers vary significantly in prognosis. Canada has over double the number of deaths due to lung cancer and nearly double the deaths due to colorectal cancer compared to California. Essentially cancer looks different in California than Canada. This makes drawing conclusions that there are thousands suffering unnecessarily extended end of life experiences difficult. https://cancerstatisticscenter.cancer.org/#!/state/C…

Why though? Not a loaded question genuinely curious. More smoking up north?

From a quick search, it seems to be due the Radon gas.

Exposure to Radon is the #1 cause of lung cancer on non-smoker. Canada ranks third on indoor radon concentration worldwide.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#88

Post by msla »

wernercd wrote: post #82
msla wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? Because nobody's made that case. Making a case requires evidence. Not handwaving and appeals to movie plots. > We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair... As long as we're trading conspiracy theories, the person who reported that was paid off by the right…

"Nobody's made the case" Tons of people are making the case. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanisin... "Since then, things have only gotten worse. A woman in Ontario was forced into euthanasia because her housing benefits did not allow her to get better housing which didn’t aggravate her crippling allergies. Another disabled woman applied to die because she ‘simply cannot afford to keep on livin…

> So again: Why isn't the take that Thousands are dying to soon to save money?

You relayed a handful of stories that, even assuming they're all broadly correct, still don't add up to thousands.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#90

Post by subradios »

mmastrac wrote: post #79
rayiner wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are people forced to live if they don't want to? Because we live in a society , not some libertarian utopia of sovereign citizens. Your life doesn’t belong only to yourself, but it belongs to all of us. Your parents, your kids, your friends, your acquaintances. We are all affected by what you do to yourself and, concomitantly, get a say in it.

Bodily autonomy is not a libertarian -only ideal, and the way you've phrased it comes across as some sort of extreme collectivism. I'm curious if anyone has a name for this philosophy.

Degrees.

The reason why abortion and suicide are considered fair game for regulation by some people is that it has potentially drastic impacts on the future of everyone around you and theoretically society as a whole.

There is a nanny state to some degree in all societies, and if we are obligated to put cancer warnings on cigarettes I think preventing incentives loops that lead to medically encouraged suicide is also fair game.

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