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3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

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Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#81

Post by figgles »

noahc wrote: post #37
angersock wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that's an interesting question, right? I've copied the information in your mail to myself without harming the original. If I burned your letter, I've absolutely committed a wrong, but I didn't do that. If you fail to lock your door, you are in effect allowing this possibility. If you communicate over a "clear" channel, without taking steps to encrypt that data, you are again allowing this. That's why I don't…

You're argument is essentially the "She deserved to be raped" argument. I understand that your argument is a bit more nuanced than this because of the idea of harm you introduced. But at it's simpliest core you argue that "Hey, you made it easier and the possibility exists..." It's the same way with rape. "Hey she was wearing a short skirt and was drunk, the possibility exists." We should be able to to agree that bec…

Well, let's see. If you're a hot chick, drunk as hell, staggering around in the dark alleys of a big city in the bad part of town, you should at least be less surprised that it is rape-o-clock.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#82

Post by angersock »

nl wrote: post #72
angersock wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that's an interesting question, right? I've copied the information in your mail to myself without harming the original. If I burned your letter, I've absolutely committed a wrong, but I didn't do that. If you fail to lock your door, you are in effect allowing this possibility. If you communicate over a "clear" channel, without taking steps to encrypt that data, you are again allowing this. That's why I don't…

If you fail to lock your door, you are in effect allowing this possibility. If you communicate over a "clear" channel, without taking steps to encrypt that data, you are again allowing this. That's why I don't view this as a valid moral claim. Regardless of your argument, that's not what happened here. They broke into the (secured) Stratfor servers, then decrypted the email using a key they stole. At best the real an…

The whole "but nothing was destroyed" argument is a whole other argument, but equally as weak. The fact that exclusive access information has value has been long established, and there are numerous precedents in the physical world showing it. The best example is someone breaking into a commercial office, gaining access to private commercial documents which they can use in negotiations. Clearly harm has been done, as it has in this case.

So, lost profits due to being in a worse bargaining position is hardly a "harm". The company in question can either go through the negotiations in a weaker position, or they can walk away from the table. This is a case of better matching the (true) price of sale for the seller and consumer.

Ignorance is what allows large profits to be made, and as far as I recall unrealized profits shouldn't be claimed as harms.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#83

Post by devs1010 »

ge0rg wrote: post #60
sigzero wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bradley Manning was not one of the "good ones". Sorry.

I yield to your well-founded argument. P.S: I consider publication of information about war cruelty and international political pressure as benefiting for mankind, ethically good and thus conforming to the "hacker ethics".

Yes, the government is not above the law. If they are going to do things that are incriminating obviously we can't go through the normal channels to find out as they will cover their asses to no end. This sort of thing is literally one of the only ways to give the assholes in charge who abuse their power what they deserve.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#84

Post by devs1010 »

ge0rg wrote: post #74
TomOfTTB wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about this... Bradley Manning posted two types of information. War Footage and Diplomatic Cables. The War Footage was unpleasant to watch but didn't document anything that wasn't already well known (at least to anyone who paid attention to Iraqi Civilian Casualty Numbers). As such no change has been made by the government. The second group, diplomatic cables, actually caused harm. The whole point of diplomacy is…

Much better. > The War Footage was unpleasant to watch but didn't document anything that wasn't already well known (at least to anyone who paid attention [...]) It generated mass media attention and thus had an impact on previously uninformed people. > The second group, diplomatic cables, actually caused harm. It also made transparent how governments followed US pressure secretly, lying to the people, and they are sa…

Its all subjective. To some, such as myself, I don't give a shit if it cost our government to "lose face" and possibly have to back out of war, etc. I personally feel that are government is up to no good in a number of ways and that those in charge need to be taken down a few notches. The U.S. isn't some mindless borg, we all have different beliefs and feelings on what is right and wrong so saying something caused our government harm is really just saying it caused the people in charge harm, its up to the rest of the citizens to decide if it really caused them any harm.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#85

Post by naner »

DevX101 wrote: post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action.

That is a reflection of the community this was posted in (/r/WikiLeaks). If you look at the other Stratfor discussions on reddit they tend to be more balanced.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#86

Post by peterwwillis »

Ugh.

Why does the title say 3.3 million e-mails? The pastebin claims 2.7 million.

Why did they feel the need to announce this before the wiki had all the data? Barrett just had to get extra PR time?

Why do all these releases sound like they're written by kids in tree forts with bed sheet capes on? Then again all self-righteous announcements kind of read the same way to me.

What's with their wiki? What is this shit? http://echelon2.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges

This whole thing is a big Anonymous waste of fucking time. Please flag this.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#87

Post by jasondrowley »

devs1010 wrote: post #76
electromagnetic wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to back you on this. This doesn't sit in any moral grey area. This is nothing but corruption. If people genuinely have no problem with the outing of millions of private correspondences, then they should be publicly offering their own correspondences up for inspection. If you're against SOPA, you should be against tyranny like this. This is the tyranny of the minority, of anarchists who aren't doing this for mo…

"then they should be publicly offering their own correspondences up for inspection" We already are, the government has made it fairly clear that they have the "right" to read anyone's emails they please due to their bullshit "war on terror", its about time we get the same chance to do it to them

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that government employees' correspondence with a private company is confidential.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#88

Post by stfu »

jonhendry wrote: post #29
danilocampos wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. You know what? Your position, on paper, makes a lot of sense. At the same time, there are times where you say "eh, fuck it." And this, for me, is one of them. Assume we live in a world where those who have power exist in a sphere of privilege. They enjoy protections from the consequences of their actions. Their influence and connections exempt them from the standard costs of citizenship. If that's the case, if t…

"On the other hand, because of Strafor's mission" The dissemination of information? What's wrong with that?

I still don't get what was wrong with Stratefor. I subscribed to their newsletter a long time ago and the content was somewhat on the Foreign Affairs magazine level.

Sure, some military and secret service personal were among the subscribers, but they are most likely among the subscribers of the Wired magazine as well. I am truly looking forward to the email leak and what kind of secret in formations they are able to reveal.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#89

Post by quanticle »

DevX101 wrote: post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

Powerful actors must be held accountable for the use of their action. To believe otherwise means that might makes right.

Private actors, whether they be firms or well-connected individuals are (and always have) attempted to influence those holding power. It is in the public interest to expose power and influence-mongering. Government, by virtue of its power over individual citizens needs to be held to a higher standard of openness. Private parties should be held to the same standard, when they choose to deal with the government in a manner that may influence its actions.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#90

Post by rhizome »

DevX101 wrote: post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released.

What do you mean, "if" the tables were turned?

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