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Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

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Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#81

Post by cratermoon »

matthewmcg wrote: post #27
mauvehaus wrote: post #19

Fuck the shareholders. Strike. Yes, I am absolutely willing to pay more in the short term for things so that people are treated with a little basic human decency. Moreover, I'm more than happy to pay a little more for things in the long term to ensure that there's enough slack in the system to absorb the shocks that periodically come around. We've just spent almost three years slowly killing everyone in healthcare be…

This approach is taken with regulated utilities and telcos as well--natural gas utilities design their systems with enough capacity to serve all firm customers on the expected coldest day of the year (called a "design day") and circuit switched telephone networks were designed to handle the traffic expected on Mother's Day.

Except in Texas, of course. But then, one might argue that utilities in Texas aren't meaningfully regulated.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#82

Post by francisofascii »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #33
mauvehaus wrote: post #19

Fuck the shareholders. Strike. Yes, I am absolutely willing to pay more in the short term for things so that people are treated with a little basic human decency. Moreover, I'm more than happy to pay a little more for things in the long term to ensure that there's enough slack in the system to absorb the shocks that periodically come around. We've just spent almost three years slowly killing everyone in healthcare be…

Agreed on the strike. Hearing they have 0 sick days (plus penalties for missing) was unbelievable to me. Strike and make it so the rail company shareholders have to live with completely fucking the US economy over their profit margins. And if they do, we all have a duty to point the finger at them.

But they get PTO days, right? Many people in tech don't have sick days, just PTO days which include vacation, sick, etc. Unless I am missing something.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#83

Post by bumby »

avidphantasm wrote: post #66
mauvehaus wrote: post #19

Fuck the shareholders. Strike. Yes, I am absolutely willing to pay more in the short term for things so that people are treated with a little basic human decency. Moreover, I'm more than happy to pay a little more for things in the long term to ensure that there's enough slack in the system to absorb the shocks that periodically come around. We've just spent almost three years slowly killing everyone in healthcare be…

Agreed. This is a huge opportunity to reset employment terms, and not just in this industry. Also, allegedly many current railroad workers started in 2004 and will be eligible to retire in 2024. If we don’t fix this now, we’ll be in a worse position in a year or so. All who can will retire, and recruiting new hires will be even harder. Long term, we probably need to bust up the railroads and create a nationalized and…

>2004 and will be eligible to retire in 2024

This isn't a push against your overall point, but I think a larger systemic view is necessary. E.g., maybe the idea of retirement after 20 years is outdated. Or maybe the system needs to be re-thought in terms of how to keep that paradigm funded, particularly in economies with declining birth rates.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#84

Post by mjbeswick »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #71
mjbeswick wrote: post #26

Rail companies are getting the blame here, but the real problem is that paid leave isn't a statutory employment right protected by law. Here in the UK full time employees are entitled to 28 day paid annual leave, although I have work for companies which offer more, while pay is seperate.

Another possible causal factor is just that labor is weak in the US, and thus is unable to win sick days from their employers AND is unable to convince congress to pass universal sick days either. If that’s the case (I’m biased to say yes) these rail workers really need to strike. Voting for blues obviously isn’t cutting it.

It's seem like such a far reaching issue that I'm surprised it hasn't triggered a general strike.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#85

Post by bumby »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #65
thathndude wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment of your post. I can absorb a 10% bump in prices without really blinking. But the bottom 50% of Americans cannot. I wish it was as cut and dry as telling them to just strike, but I don’t think it’s that simple.

It's not the railroad workers' fault that half of Americans can't afford food and basic necessities.

You're not wrong, but policy is often not crafted on just the concept of fairness, but also other considerations like the stability of society.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#86

Post by efficax »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #43
mauvehaus wrote: post #19

Fuck the shareholders. Strike. Yes, I am absolutely willing to pay more in the short term for things so that people are treated with a little basic human decency. Moreover, I'm more than happy to pay a little more for things in the long term to ensure that there's enough slack in the system to absorb the shocks that periodically come around. We've just spent almost three years slowly killing everyone in healthcare be…

>>>Fuck the shareholders. Strike. Yes, I am absolutely willing to pay more in the short term for things so that people are treated with a little basic human decency. Each day the rail industry strikes costs 2 billion dollars. This type of loss would most certainly have a permanent effect on prices. Given how bad inflation is currently, this would further drive inflation higher. This complicates the decision to strike…

the rail companies could avoid a strike by agreeing on the sick leave terms and hiring more workers to add slack to the system. why aren’t they to blame? this is a system where people are dying on the job because they can’t take time to see a doctor. where they can’t help out if their family is sick. how this lasted through covid is beyond my imagination,

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#87

Post by tomrod »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #33
mauvehaus wrote: post #19

Fuck the shareholders. Strike. Yes, I am absolutely willing to pay more in the short term for things so that people are treated with a little basic human decency. Moreover, I'm more than happy to pay a little more for things in the long term to ensure that there's enough slack in the system to absorb the shocks that periodically come around. We've just spent almost three years slowly killing everyone in healthcare be…

Agreed on the strike. Hearing they have 0 sick days (plus penalties for missing) was unbelievable to me. Strike and make it so the rail company shareholders have to live with completely fucking the US economy over their profit margins. And if they do, we all have a duty to point the finger at them.

Strike, and turn it into a general strike. Some things in the US need to change, and the formerly convenient routes of legislation or lawsuit are perceived as nonfunctional by a large and growing portion of the population. Clear the constipated logjam of current politics.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#88

Post by treis »

markus_zhang wrote: post #64
treis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's shifting where the pie goes. It's not making more pie.

Shifting pie can be very useful. Consider the situation: One super rich gets 100 million and 100 ordinary people get 100k. The super rich has an upper limit for expenditure because he is still a human being. However if all 100 ordinary people get extra 10k which is paltry, they will probably spend it all to boost economy. $$ is useless if not flowed through economy.

No, we'll just get one fewer super yacht and 100 more nice cars (or whatever). It's not an increase in productivity.

Regardless, that's not really the point. The point is that if the unions want sick days it's perfectly within their capability to provide it since their salaries are quite high.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#90

Post by lotsofpulp »

bumby wrote: post #85
laweijfmvo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the railroad workers' fault that half of Americans can't afford food and basic necessities.

You're not wrong, but policy is often not crafted on just the concept of fairness, but also other considerations like the stability of society.

No, it is crafted on the stability of asset prices to benefit asset owners. If stability of society was the goal, then workers in the US would have a minimum wage tied to CPI, and minimum PTO, etc.

The way events seem to unfold is that asset owners get to take societal stability to the brink to maximize profits, and then non asset owners are the ones forced to blink to prevent societal instability. Aka privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

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