Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen this a LOT in my professional group. Many people (who often have PhDs!!) I interview for data science positions seem to know absolutely nothing about the algorithms they use professionally, or how to optimize them, or why they are a good fit for their use case, etc etc etc. I usually see through LinkedIn that these same people are now in impressive-sounding positions at other companies. I had one candidate…
Where are these jobs where you can interview this badly and still get hired because in my experience DS interviews are extremely hard and often expect people to have very high Stats skills as well as Data Structures/Algo skills at FAANG level.
Goodbye, data science
81–90 of 415 posts
Re: Goodbye, data science
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you. Super powers are seeing value in doing something, and then finding the easiest and most efficient path to get there. That said, sometimes I do like to read the code in libraries I use but often this is more for enjoyment with occasionally learning something interesting.
How can you see the value in doing something if you don’t understand the underlying concepts?
Re: Goodbye, data science
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well good luck then, in my experience the most free time I've ever had in my life was during college. I squandered massive amounts of that time doing things completely unrelated to education, and I definitely don't regret doing that. College isn't just about book learning after all. But still, BY FAR, college is the time of my life when I had the most free time to do whatever I wanted.
Middle and high school is where a lot of students learn to stop being curious due to a lack of time. College demands far fewer hours per day, but it can be hard to forget what was taught previously.
Re: Goodbye, data science
#84> Nobody knew or even cared what the difference was between good and bad data science work. Meaning you could absolutely suck at your job or be incredible at it and you’d get nearly the same regards in either case. In my experience it's even a little bit worse than that. Approaches that are wrong from a statistics point of view are more likely to generate impressive seeming results. But the flaws are often subtle. A…
There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and data
I am being glib, I of course do not think all data is inconsequential, rather it is more often used from a place of ignorance or a place of ill intent it is rendered, on the whole, useless.
Re: Goodbye, data science
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
To counter your professor opinion. The amount of extra time available as a student that I had to pursue things of interest was in the negative. All academic time was spent getting course content accomplished. I am a naturally curious individual but time limitations prevent further exploration in most circumstances. Additionally there is a relevancy factor weighed on top of it. If something looks curious I have to pre…
Well good luck then, in my experience the most free time I've ever had in my life was during college. I squandered massive amounts of that time doing things completely unrelated to education, and I definitely don't regret doing that. College isn't just about book learning after all. But still, BY FAR, college is the time of my life when I had the most free time to do whatever I wanted.
Re: Goodbye, data science
#86Re: Goodbye, data science
#87As someone who has just moved from Data Science to Software Engineering I feel very much the same way, liberated.
I worked in DS for 5 years and had varying degrees of success in working at companies that understood the proper use and application of Data Science. What killed my passion for it was a few things:
1. Data Science is a dubious field - Data Science can certainly be applied correctly but I and others have used the underlying statistical methods gung-ho at times. Part of this comes down to something that W.D said. That Data Scientists are generally early on in their career. We have been captivated by the shiny new field and want to use it as quickly as possible without fully understanding it. Throughout my career I've been met with varying degrees of scepticism about my profession by people because Data Science offers more than it can give.
2. Data Science professional development is poorly understood/completely neglected - If you look for resources to grow in your Data Science skills online you are invariably drowned out by the sheer volume of crappy "Intro to Data Science" courses online. As far as I can find there is very little advanced Data Science professional development resources out there. Compounding the problem is that Data Science teams are invariably managed by people who aren't native to the field. This has the effect of the manager letting Data Scientists self direct their learning which will hit the problem mentioned previously.
3. Support for MLOps is non-existent - I think this problem will change over the next couple of years but Data Science has had to go through cycles of being integrated into a business. The first "wave" of Data Science was met with the realisation by companies that they couldn't get Data Scientists to magic money out of the poorly maintained data they kept. This has caused a huge increase in Data Engineers (not just Data Science has spawned this), now we have Data Scientists who have access to nice data (thanks Data Engineers!), they can build some interesting models but how do they get it deployed? This second "wave" is seeing the rise of MLOps tools, engineers, etc but Data Scientists currently don't have the know-how to get their own models in to production. This inability is incredibly demoralizing from my experience.
4. Educating fellow Data Scientists is too difficult - Unfortunately the perception that is given to people coming in to Data Science is that you can just do model engineering and call it a day. Bootcamps, courses, tutorials are all geared towards getting people good at building models, not about considering how those models fit into the bigger picture. There is little to no knowledge about good programming practices, source control (a lot of Data Scientists I worked with only knew git as a swear word) or deployment strategies. You could argue that a Data Scientist's should only be concerned with building models, I would agree but the reality is that companies will hire a team of Data Scientists but will likely not provide complementing teams to get models in to production. When trying to upskill others on my team it's been an uphill battle. Either people don't care as they just want to build models or they have come from an adjacent field with no software engineering experience.
Apologies for the stream of consciousness but it feels good to get it off my chest. My move to Software Engineering started in my last role where I was a Lead for a Data Science team. Thankfully my boss (head of Data) understood the need for developing a whole data system from good Data Engineering all the way through to MLOps for deployments. I was very fortunate to be able to move to being the Lead MLOps Engineer and develop our capability to deploy models with CI/CD mechanisms using AWS. That really gave me the taste for building systems rather than models. I really do think Data Science has a place and can provide great value but it's still a long way off. If we can make it so that Data Science teams can deploy to production quickly and safely we can really start to reap the rewards.
For Software Engineers looking at getting in to Data Science I would suggest looking at MLOps first. You get to combine existing experience with tackling new problems (how do we keep models live and continuously learning? how do we ensure the tracking of experiments?) and will have a tremendous impact.
Re: Goodbye, data science
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
To counter your professor opinion. The amount of extra time available as a student that I had to pursue things of interest was in the negative. All academic time was spent getting course content accomplished. I am a naturally curious individual but time limitations prevent further exploration in most circumstances. Additionally there is a relevancy factor weighed on top of it. If something looks curious I have to pre…
Well good luck then, in my experience the most free time I've ever had in my life was during college. I squandered massive amounts of that time doing things completely unrelated to education, and I definitely don't regret doing that. College isn't just about book learning after all. But still, BY FAR, college is the time of my life when I had the most free time to do whatever I wanted.
Re: Goodbye, data science
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
To counter your professor opinion. The amount of extra time available as a student that I had to pursue things of interest was in the negative. All academic time was spent getting course content accomplished. I am a naturally curious individual but time limitations prevent further exploration in most circumstances. Additionally there is a relevancy factor weighed on top of it. If something looks curious I have to pre…
Well good luck then, in my experience the most free time I've ever had in my life was during college. I squandered massive amounts of that time doing things completely unrelated to education, and I definitely don't regret doing that. College isn't just about book learning after all. But still, BY FAR, college is the time of my life when I had the most free time to do whatever I wanted.
No kids, no sports, no community involvement, no side hustles, no expectations.
Re: Goodbye, data science
#90I know some people cringe (mostly infra) when they think of data scientists having direct access to databases and infrastructure but honestly you should have a level of understanding and responsibility to get there.
The data scientists that do data engineering are usually much more valuable to the company and definitely earn more.