All of a sudden, it seems really stupid that telegram stores all their data unencrypted and waiting for a court order. I expect them to fight this, because they have a very good track record there, but the moment they capitulate the floodgates will open.
After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users
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Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users
#82Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number and aren't end-to-end encrypted. Use services that store as little data as possible. If data is stored, it can be given away and I would assume that it will be given away. Telegram disguises itself as encrypted chat app, when it is actually just a regular centralized plaintext messenger that has an encryption feature that nobody uses.
TLDR don't use Telegram and Signal as some "alternatives" Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar (no (video)calls), Delta (no (video)calls), Jami, not recommending Threema because they can tie you through payment and it's centralized Here simple chart to see what to use and not use (use translate feature): https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix.html
Threema can be paid with burner Bitcoin. So I would say that Threema is fairly secure.
Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users
#83Telegram (and other messaging apps for that matter) should allow accounts to be created without a phone number, and ideally stop saving the IP addresses of users.
Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Signal is great until your family member's phone breaks, and you have to explain to them that their messages are gone forever. Allow us to choose to enable backups, Signal!
I have backups enabled actually. Sure, it's a pain to manage compared to WhatsApp, as you have to manually download it off your phone, but Signal has an option for automatic daily backups. They are encrypted with a key you have to note down somewhere though, so if you don't prepare for it the messages are, in fact, gone forever.
Manual backups are no backup.
Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Signal is great until your family member's phone breaks, and you have to explain to them that their messages are gone forever. Allow us to choose to enable backups, Signal!
PLease no. If someone compromises one of the contacts in a large chat group's google password or whatnot, they now have the entire message and media history from me to the chat group? This is exactly why iMessage is so useless for security - one compromise on one person's apple ID and all their groups have all their messages compromised going forward.
Disappearing messages are what you want here.
I expect it would be easier to compromise a group member's phone than someone's Google account.
Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users
#86It would have been neat if one could make an app on top of telegrams API to do e2ee , afaik that breaks telegrams API tos
Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users
#87Quoted post unavailable.
literally 1984
Absolutely astonished about parent comment.
He uses Newspeak obviously ;)
Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Transport encryption does not make it private . Optional e2ee is as good as no e2ee. And they rolled their own crypto... For some reason my non-technical friends still would be very surprised to learn that Whatsapp is more private than Telegram.
I don't think you understand how Telegram encrypts its chats. MTProto is also used to encrypt Cloud Chats at rest. It's not just transport. Cloud Chats are not e2ee because the keys are held by Telegram. Moxie also "rolled his own crypto". "Rolling your own crypto" is typically used disparagingly by those who claim moral or intellectual superiority over the competition. The Signal Protocol was rolled by someone, yes?…
> the keys are held by Telegram
This is where the privacy promise falls apart. From a user's perspective on-disk encryption makes no difference, because there is no real enhancement of privacy for them. If a third party holds the key, they hold the key. If you put something into the hotel safe, the hotel could still steal it from you. As far as I can tell, most TG users are not aware or do not care, but for those who are not aware, but actually do care, this should be made much more clear.
> Moxie also "rolled his own crypto"
Besides Moxie being a bit dubious himself, the more interesting question is: was there something that was already verified by many people that could have been used instead?
Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I sympathize with the sentiment, but the vast majority of my contacts already use other messaging systems that are identified by phone number such as SMS and WhatsApp—they don’t even use email, at least not for “text messaging”‐like things. In practice I’ve found that Signal has been the most successful privacy‐respecting messenger that my friends communicate with, which I attribute in large part to its policy of pop…
"Network effects" is an euphemism for "peer pressure" .
so you like to run around and force all your contacts onto a new better messenger du jour? Messaging is by definition a social activity, so unless you sever most connections and just message yourself, you do end up using whatsapp, telegram, shit some of my family still uses skype! so all this well-meaning advice "just use..." is ridiculous in practice.