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Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

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Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#81
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PFTE is different from PFAS.

This is wrong, PTFE is a PFAS. PFAS is a family of Per or poly fluoroalkyl substances. Basically it's a group of substances that have very long ass Carbon and Flour chains.

However you want to define your acronym of choice, it is disingenuous to conflate the fully fluorinated stuff (PTFE and PFA) with the partially fluorinated stuff (PFOA etc). They are very different beasts. All current evidence is that (after manufacturing) PTFE and PFA are as harmless as anything else out there. The partially fluorinated stuff is nasty.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#82
Gore-TEX and other waterproof breathable (WPB) membrane fabrics are ridiculously oversold to people who don't spend much time outside. The amount of breathability they offer is ludicrously low compared to something like unzipping a jacket zipper or pit vent. If you're moving at all, a WPB jacket means that you'll be drenched from the inside due to sweat, and all that water repelled by your jacket ends up on your pants and shoes. Then people think they need WPB head to toe, which is like wearing a big ziploc bag.

I had a friend come on a hike with me wearing a three layer Gore-TEX jacket on a warm, completely clear day. I think he began to overheat with it (wearing a sweatshirt underneath) while in the parking lot, before we even got on the trail. He ended up carrying it the entire way.

I used to bike commute and walk in the rain, long before even knowing Gore-TEX existed. Being warm is more important than being dry (if you're not in subzero temperatures). Wool and synthetics will keep you warm even if they're wet - I've spent a fair amount of time soaking wet but feeling fine. And stuff will dry out quickly when you're wearing it indoors.

If you're a mountaineer, sure - use Gore-TEX if being cold and wet is likely going to kill you. And don't forget all the other layers. But for normal people, we don't need it.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#83

Wonderful fabric for mountain gear. Unfortunately, like Teflon cooking pans, its amazing properties come from a coating with perfluorinated octyl sulfonate, a known endocrine disruptor: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7722801/

Setting aside the issues from waste during the manufacturing process and the messes that have been made (see 3M plants for example), is the actual Gore-tex product itself hazardous? Like, how much of the material do you have to eat, and how edible is the Gore-tex product? I get Teflon coatings scratching and getting mixed with the prepared food, but I typically don't go around gnawing on my clothing. Does Gore-tex le…

probably not

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#84

Keep in mind that with Gore-TEX you still have to sacrifice a lot of breathe-ability. If you don't need something to be waterproof, you may be happier with a non-waterproof alternative. I've found that to be particularly true of shoes.

The Gore-TEX membrane in the shoe also tends to break down quite quickly. Think on the order of months if worn daily.

Yup, Gore-TEX shoes don't stay waterproof long enough to justify the cost in my mind.

If I know my feet are going to be wet for 6+ hours I go with my shoes-with-drain and waterproof socks, over N layers of thin wool socks depending on temperature. I have only replaced the socks twice because I don't use em too much.

I've found for offshore sailing or backpacking in the wet that Sealskinz (not gore-tex) are the best. Still wearing gore-tex bibs and top anytime there's any wet.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#85
I'm surprised we don't have active waterproofing by now, like a tiny belt pack that maintains a really thin inflatable layer with just enough leakage to dry you off.

I guess people might not trust anything active in a situation where getting wet could be dangerous, but in a city it seems like it could be a cool way to make waterproofing that never wears out as long as the air pump works.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#86
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any particular brands you recommend? Is this something worthwhile for everyday wear, or this is mainly for outdoor sports enthusiasts?

I purchased a North Face jacket at their factory store in Berkeley, mid-1990s, the Gore Tex "Mountain Light" and a fleece "Denali" inner jacket. It fit me really well, for a 30-year anniversary I decided to get a new one last week. They still make the same design. The new one uses their nano-spun FutureLight fabric, rather than a three-layer nylon(?)/GoreTex sandwich. It's much more soft, like a woven fabric rather t…

Why did you correct to polycarbonate, a narrow category of plastics? Plastics is a very broad descriptor suitable for capturing all kinds of improvements in plastics and I don’t think any zippers are even made from polycarbonate.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#87
post #6

It's pretty popular in Germany and the name and logo is often found on outdoor clothing. I always wondered if the name is the same in English speaking countries, or if it's different because of its negative connotations. Apparently it's just a not too uncommon family name (Al Gore comes to mind) and also used as brand name in English speaking countries. People get so upset about Toot and Coq and Gimp, but Gore seems…

I usually see it as GTX

No, I think that's the successor to FTX.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#88
post #82

Gore-TEX and other waterproof breathable (WPB) membrane fabrics are ridiculously oversold to people who don't spend much time outside. The amount of breathability they offer is ludicrously low compared to something like unzipping a jacket zipper or pit vent. If you're moving at all, a WPB jacket means that you'll be drenched from the inside due to sweat, and all that water repelled by your jacket ends up on your pant…

In the PNW, particularly here in BC, Gore-TEX was an absolute game-changer for hikers. Throw on a tank top or tee-shirt, then your Gore-TEX jacket, and you could climb basically any local mountain between March and October, rain or shine. Every local hike went from being a moist, uncomfortable affair to being a joy regardless of the weather.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#90
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small chemically inert substances can gunk up your cells and tissues even if they are soft.

The don't make into your cells and tissues, because they're not digestible. Anything bigger than a "small molecule" doesn't make it through the membranes into your bloodstream. Even individual proteins are too big, let alone a chunk of your frying pan big enough to see.

When talking about a small polymer, I was mainly commenting on microscopic flakes and lakes laced with "chemically inert" molecules that have devastating physiological effects.

Either way, what you claim is simply not true by any reasoning [1], though I do agree eating teflon flakes in moderate amounts should not pose much concern.

[1] https://phys.org/news/2020-08-micro-nanoplastics-human-tissu...

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