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Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

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Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#81

Post by x3c »

ataggart wrote: post #61
msutherl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will also be a government to protect you from being mugged, killed and discarded in the street.

I'm curious at to what statistical facts inform that opinion. Police certainly may show up after being a victim of a crime, but being protected from crimes seems a harder case to make without resorting to unfalsifiable claims (sort of like those put forth by defenders of patent law).

If there were no police and no government, you're saying the crime rate woud be same?

No, I have no facts to support that the crime rate would increase. Just tons of post-apocalyptic movie experiences and intuition.

Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#82

Post by latch »

joshwa wrote: post #79
latch wrote: post #37

I've been in Hong Kong for a year and a half. As a city, it's quite nice. Low taxes, extremely safe, vibrant culture. Pollution is really the biggest downside for me (you get used to the # of people quickly, and I'm from a small city and I hate people so...) However, professionally speaking? Forget about it. It's a horrible place for programmers. In the last couple months I've met with 2 entrepreneurs looking to move…

On the inverse side of that equation, does that mean an experienced dev coming from the US will be in a buyer's market job-wise?

If you want to work for a bank, probably. And you probably will be able to find a job at a startup, but (a) you won't have hundreds of choices, and (b) the pay might be horrible.

You probably shouldn't move here unless you had something lined up before hand.

Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#83

Post by joshwa »

latch wrote: post #82
joshwa wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the inverse side of that equation, does that mean an experienced dev coming from the US will be in a buyer's market job-wise?

If you want to work for a bank, probably. And you probably will be able to find a job at a startup, but (a) you won't have hundreds of choices, and (b) the pay might be horrible. You probably shouldn't move here unless you had something lined up before hand.

I don't mind at all working for a bank... I'm already I'm fortune-100 land.

Currently living in southwest china, but coming from NYC so wondering if salaries are comparable? Are there any i-banks or hedge funds with dev shops in HK?

That said I'm really a UX guy with an enterprise background, so any BigCorp would do.

Only caveat: I have very little putonghua and zero guangdonghua. How screwed am I?

Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#84

Post by latch »

joshwa wrote: post #83
latch wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to work for a bank, probably. And you probably will be able to find a job at a startup, but (a) you won't have hundreds of choices, and (b) the pay might be horrible. You probably shouldn't move here unless you had something lined up before hand.

I don't mind at all working for a bank... I'm already I'm fortune-100 land. Currently living in southwest china, but coming from NYC so wondering if salaries are comparable? Are there any i-banks or hedge funds with dev shops in HK? That said I'm really a UX guy with an enterprise background, so any BigCorp would do. Only caveat: I have very little putonghua and zero guangdonghua. How screwed am I?

You really need to target the large international banks. UBS, Morgan Stanley, Deutsche, Credit Suisse. They use agencies/recruiters a lot, so that might be an angle of attack worth exploring.

If you do that you are fine in HK with english-only (professionally speaking. Socially, I could see it annoying some people (english is an official language in fact only), but it has never bothered me). As for salary, I don't know if they are identical to NY or London salaries, but it's gotta be in the same ballpark.

HSBC might be the only large international bank where english-only would be a problem (though I'm really not sure, just heard a few things).

Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#85

Post by camz »

paulhauggis wrote: post #64
latch wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are probably better off visiting the place and getting a feel for it rather than relying on "facts". For example, some people might see Hong Kong as part of China and thus conclude it's oppressive. However, it only takes a day or two here to realize that people enjoy a ton of freedom (I see protests all the time, and haven't seen anyone pepper sprayed or arrested yet).

"However, it only takes a day or two here to realize that people enjoy a ton of freedom (I see protests all the time, and haven't seen anyone pepper sprayed or arrested yet)." It won't be like this forever. I think the autonomous government deadline is 50 years. When this happens, it won't be as "free" as it is now. This is also only if the Chinese government doesn't go back on their word. If you truly want a free co…

If it helps, I'm go-authoring a book with Derek Sivers on Taiwan. Leaving next week for Taiwan to write the book over the next month. It's an awesome place to do business because of their low cost of living but their taxes are similar to the US>

Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#86

Post by gommm »

ebaysucks wrote: post #7

Could people from the Hong Kong startup community please comment on HK vs Shanghai for doing a startup? I've lived in HK during my student exchange and loved every minute of it - I also have an employee working from Hong Kong. At some point I'll set up teams to target Asian markets with China as the most important one. What are pro's and con's of HK vs Shanghai? Edit: Thanks for all the answers! I really want to go b…

I've created a WFOE (Wholly Foreign Owned Enterprise) in Shanghai. The red tape is incredible and it took us almost 6 months to complete the process. Also, in between the law changed and employees became significantly more expensive due to the new social security law...

As a software development consulting company, the pro is that there's a big market but if you want to do your own product then HK is the way to go...

Launching a web based product in China is dangerous because it's very hard to predict what will happen (you could be shut down by the government for one reason or another). Also cost of living and salary wise, Shanghai is anything but cheap (housing is cheaper than hong kong but the rest is not that much cheaper).

For the internet connection, it's manageable when using a ssh tunnel to a private server in the US... But it's a bit of pain (without that and tsocks even doing a bundle install in ruby takes a very long time and often times out)

Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#87

Post by _delirium »

josscrowcroft wrote: post #74
saryant wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, what counts as leaving HK? A quick hop on the ferry to Macao or do you have to go further like Taipei or Hanoi?

Most people do the Macau run, yeah. Air Asia flights are dirt cheap to e.g. Bangkok.

So when you leave you don't have to stay out for a certain length of time, like the Schengen "no more than 90 days out of every 180 days" rule?

Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#88

Post by josscrowcroft »

_delirium wrote: post #87
josscrowcroft wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people do the Macau run, yeah. Air Asia flights are dirt cheap to e.g. Bangkok.

So when you leave you don't have to stay out for a certain length of time, like the Schengen "no more than 90 days out of every 180 days" rule?

Not that I've ever experienced - for Brits, Yanks and Europeans. YMMV!

Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#89

Post by parka »

dantheman wrote: post #33
jacques_chester wrote: post #31

Personally I'd go to Singapore -- low personal taxes, no capital gains tax, no tax on income from dividends, low regulation, lots of capital, close to both Australia and Asia and it's a global flight hub.

Singapore is a dictatorship, and I think one should always consider the political and legal frameworks of a country in case one runs afoul of the law. I don't know about Singapore, but in some countries merely criticizing the government can get you into trouble, e.g. Thailand.

Dictatorship is not accurate. I'm from Singapore and seriously, you can do whatever you want, just don't break the law (as with any other countries).

Singapore is very pro-business.

Re: Why we are taking our startup to Hong Kong and other crazy stories of 2011

#90

Post by mhartl »

camz wrote: post #85
paulhauggis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"However, it only takes a day or two here to realize that people enjoy a ton of freedom (I see protests all the time, and haven't seen anyone pepper sprayed or arrested yet)." It won't be like this forever. I think the autonomous government deadline is 50 years. When this happens, it won't be as "free" as it is now. This is also only if the Chinese government doesn't go back on their word. If you truly want a free co…

If it helps, I'm go-authoring a book with Derek Sivers on Taiwan. Leaving next week for Taiwan to write the book over the next month. It's an awesome place to do business because of their low cost of living but their taxes are similar to the US>

Coincidentally, the main reason I visited Singapore was to hang out with Derek. I'll be interested to see the result of your collaboration. P.S. I'm sure it's a typo, but I love the idea of "go-authoring" a book—it has a great ambitious ring to it.
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