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Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

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81–90 of 93 posts

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#81
I think I understand your frustration, and I agree to a certain extent. But first, consider this:

Could it be that your problem isn't with Agile itself but with Scrum (i.e. how you apply Agile)?

In my experience, it goes something like this;

– "We need a better way to work"

– "Oh, let's go with Agile, everyone is doing that"

– "But that's just a set of principles and guidelines though isn't it?"

– "So we need something on top of it then. To keep track of what we're doing and what we've done? And how fast we've done it. How fast we can deliver things. We have to measure the throughput of the features we ship. Oh and we need status tags so that we know which state every feature is in at any given time. And the features are too big of course, we need to split them into smaller \"tasks\", and they need to contain exactly the information required to complete the work without talking to anyone else. I mean I'm a manager and simply must know what people are working on and how they're solving it and, if they're not doing it fast enough. Right?"

– "Sounds good, how do we keep track of the way we keep track of things?"

– "Hmmmm....."

– "Oh wait! Meetings and ceremonies!!"

If you cannot succeed in a situation where you have motivated people, in an environment where learning by failure is encouraged and management that trust their workers I don't think you can blame Agile. But you could perhaps blame the framework that you execute Agile with because they have a way of demotivating even the best of us.

In a perfect world (where you're all in the same room all the time) the Agile manifesto and the development principles it comes with, a whiteboard and post-its will be all you need. Your problem is what you've replaced the whiteboard and post-its with.

I could of course be wrong here but this is, in my experience what breaks the camels back. Mostly...

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#83
post #82

What you're describing isn't agile. It's scrum. Scrum, and any of its Agile™ derivatives are anti-agile. If you want to know what agile actually means,you need go no further than reading the original https://agilemanifesto.org/

You could say it’s just not being done right, but at some point, if so many people keep trying it and it still doesn’t work, maybe the problem is the approach itself.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#84

Yeah it does suck and you’re not wrong. I’ve spent the last 3 years at my company trying to refine our Agile/Scrum process into something that gets out of my engineers way. It basically boils down to the Engineering manager, product manager and project manager or “scrum master” actually putting in a good bit of work to make things run smoothly. 1) keep your stands below 15 minutes. Always. There should also never be…

> Engineering manager, product manager and project manager What kind of Agile are following that has these roles defined?

Your “product manager” is your stakeholder and your project manager is your scrum master but do agile processes really have no technical managers involved? Engineering manager can be “tech lead” or “lead developer” too I suppose but their workload is going to be skewed away from being an IC.

If Agile is being implemented in a way where engineering has zero formal authority or stakeholders that goes a long way to explain why engineers hate it.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#85

I feel the need to respond here, but I really don't want to. Anyway... The core of Agile is that it values: - Individuals and interactions over processes and tools - Working software over comprehensive documentation - Customer collaboration over contract negotiation - Responding to change over following a plan Agile also has 12 development principles: 1. Customer satisfaction by early and continuous delivery of valua…

[deleted]

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Engineering manager, product manager and project manager What kind of Agile are following that has these roles defined?

Your “product manager” is your stakeholder and your project manager is your scrum master but do agile processes really have no technical managers involved? Engineering manager can be “tech lead” or “lead developer” too I suppose but their workload is going to be skewed away from being an IC. If Agile is being implemented in a way where engineering has zero formal authority or stakeholders that goes a long way to expl…

A project manager is very different than a scrum master. Quoting this website https://www.coursera.org/articles/scrum-master-vs-project-ma...

"the Project Manager plays the leadership role by leading the planning for the execution of the project. Scrum Master plays a support role for the team members"

Agile development teams should be self organizing, and so a lead that decides on things is really strange. See the 11th principle of Agile:

11. Best architectures, requirements, and designs emerge from self-organizing teams.

If the team wants to appoint a tech lead, then fine. But forcing a tech lead onto an Agile team is not how it's done.

I get it that "Agile" is the hype and every company claims to do "Agile". I would love the see the companies that really implement the 4 items of the manifesto and 12 Agile software development principles. I'm sure most companies are doing the reverse than what is stated there.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#87
I used to work for the GAMP environment, that means the V-model is obligatory, and I can not contribute to the agile thing. (Although, if you work for a process plant, you better are damned agile. The production must go on in any circumstances.)

I just want to ask if someone here can elaborate on using pure Kanban? It seems to me a very lean, cheap and flexible tool.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your “product manager” is your stakeholder and your project manager is your scrum master but do agile processes really have no technical managers involved? Engineering manager can be “tech lead” or “lead developer” too I suppose but their workload is going to be skewed away from being an IC. If Agile is being implemented in a way where engineering has zero formal authority or stakeholders that goes a long way to expl…

A project manager is very different than a scrum master. Quoting this website https://www.coursera.org/articles/scrum-master-vs-project-ma... "the Project Manager plays the leadership role by leading the planning for the execution of the project. Scrum Master plays a support role for the team members" Agile development teams should be self organizing, and so a lead that decides on things is really strange. See the 11…

Correct, it's not "pure" agile, because that version of agile is extremely frustrating to implement inside any organization that's not a consultancy. That shouldn't surprise you: capital "A" Agile grew out of consultancies. It's not a good fit for product-driven technology firms, but product-driven firms try to adopt small "a" agile principles.

The temptation to say "If you're not enjoying yourself you're doing it wrong" doesn't really work here. Agile was not shaped by technology firms or a product culture. Its roots are in a contract job to rewrite a payroll system at a Fortune 500 company and if that's your line of work then you can hew closer to “pure” agile. The rest of us are handed a process we have to make work inside an existing org.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, there's a problem with the way it's implemented. But developers rarely have a choice on how PMs manage their projects. Agile just doesn't work for long term projects. It leads to junk code that developers hope they will fix later or long hours for them trying to meet deadlines. A lot of the time it's both.

If you say "Project Manager", I'm already suspicious that you're actually doing agile. The most popular agile framework scrum doesn't have a project manager role.

I grant you that. I might not have done true scrum. It just emphasizes that developers don't pick how a project is managed. I've worked with a number of implementations. The last one was big enough that it had a top level project manager that coordinated a number of Scrum masters and their teams. The whole process was sort of plugged into the company's existing structure. But the importance of short timelines, constant input, daily standups and on on... Was there.

Anyhow, as a developer I'm not a fan. I've seen the results of agile on the code and it's not pretty. Say nothing of the added stress on developers. Managers like to think that software development is linear. A developer should be able to get X amount of work done over a period of time. But as a developer we know that that's not always the case.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A project manager is very different than a scrum master. Quoting this website https://www.coursera.org/articles/scrum-master-vs-project-ma... "the Project Manager plays the leadership role by leading the planning for the execution of the project. Scrum Master plays a support role for the team members" Agile development teams should be self organizing, and so a lead that decides on things is really strange. See the 11…

Correct, it's not "pure" agile, because that version of agile is extremely frustrating to implement inside any organization that's not a consultancy. That shouldn't surprise you: capital "A" Agile grew out of consultancies. It's not a good fit for product-driven technology firms, but product-driven firms try to adopt small "a" agile principles. The temptation to say "If you're not enjoying yourself you're doing it wr…

I haven't worked in any 100% pure agile team either. But the main point I was trying to get across is that the parts that work against proper development is not where you follow the agile part, it's where the agile part isn't followed.
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