81–90 of 192 posts
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Yeah, with the standard open, if we also assume Tesla opens the supercharger network it’s kind of hard to see a great argument for CCS. Better plug, more users, more chargers. I’m biased, but I’ve also used all three plugs (CCS, J1772, NACS). NACS is the USB-C to the other two’s DVI.
the argument is I dont want to take my brand new car to the junkyard in two years.
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I think it's a good strategy given how people are standardizing on CCS1 in NA. They're embracing CCS1 to a large degree, offering adapters for plugging your car into a CCS charger and allowing CCS cars to charge at Superchargers. But the connector is definitely better, so they may as well open it up in the hopes that people adopt the nicer plug and then they won't have to change it after all. Basically no reason not…
> But the (Tesla) connector is definitely better, I'm not convinced of that. Tesla's connector is thinner and lighter yes absolutely. But Tesla is also weaker and less reliable \ less fault tolerant than standard EV charger cables (See the dreaded EP307 / lock error, something that can't even happen with a normal EV CCS charger) I definitely think it's preferable for CCS win, as it's the safest, most durable, most co…
Can you share a link to back these claims?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's a good strategy given how people are standardizing on CCS1 in NA. They're embracing CCS1 to a large degree, offering adapters for plugging your car into a CCS charger and allowing CCS cars to charge at Superchargers. But the connector is definitely better, so they may as well open it up in the hopes that people adopt the nicer plug and then they won't have to change it after all. Basically no reason not…
> and allowing CCS cars to charge at Superchargers. I'm reading the announcement differently. They are saying future non Teslas who adopt NACS can use the Tesla chargers. It doesn't say anything about current CCS cars being able to use Tesla charging.
Even after this move I don't see any way that the Tesla standard gains enough momentum to take over from CCS in the non-Tesla US EV market. If Tesla had done this in 2015 there's a chance it might have caught on globally. With the non-Tesla US EV market locked into CCS and growing rapidly (and Tesla itself already committed to CCS in Europe), it feels like the Tesla standard is doomed. (In fact today's move is actually sort of bad news, since it indicates that maybe Tesla hasn't quite accepted this reality.)
[1] https://electrek.co/2022/05/10/tesla-add-ccs-connectors-supe...
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> Any good reasons why we should reject this proposal? No idea here. The 1 MW charging claim feels weird since faster charging was definitely a touted benefit of CCS in the recent past. I'm not sure if something changed. To me, it doesn't really matter one way or another. The CCS connector is bulky, but so is a gas station nozzle and I've never had a problem using one of those. Plus you'll use the CCS connector less…
>it's already the standard, Not sure how you’re defining “standard” but given that Tesla has the major majority here, its connector is the standard most people are familiar with. If you just mean, it’s something not proprietary that other manufacturers agreed on, then sure.
You can't reasonably say that e.g. USB is a standard and CCS is not
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, with the standard open, if we also assume Tesla opens the supercharger network it’s kind of hard to see a great argument for CCS. Better plug, more users, more chargers. I’m biased, but I’ve also used all three plugs (CCS, J1772, NACS). NACS is the USB-C to the other two’s DVI.
the argument is I dont want to take my brand new car to the junkyard in two years.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ccs1 vs 2 comes down to the fact that the base plug (the ac part) has to be different between the two. Europe supports 3 phase because it's common there, while the NA plug doesn't, because 3 phase is unheard of in residential installations, and it has to support 120 level 1 charging.
Doesn't seem like it has to be different, right? The Tesla/"NACS" plug supports three-phase.
Hence why they are calling this the "North American charging standard."
For context, North America's current "standard" is CCS1, which is not the same as Europe, which uses CCS2. So North America already has its own weird plug. The Tesla plug is definitely better from a usability perspective. Very curious to see if there is a major technical advantage for one or the other.
Ccs1 vs 2 comes down to the fact that the base plug (the ac part) has to be different between the two. Europe supports 3 phase because it's common there, while the NA plug doesn't, because 3 phase is unheard of in residential installations, and it has to support 120 level 1 charging.
Tesla is at least 5 years late here, maybe more like 10. All of the US federal funds will likely go to CCS now because they stuck to the proprietary network strategy, despite the OBVIOUS and natural social utility from an open industry-wide standard and charging networks open to all. For reference here is the DOT's NPRM from June laying out the proposed requirements for states to receive federal funds from the infras…
> NACS vehicles outnumber CCS two-to-one, and Tesla's Supercharging network has 60% more NACS posts than all the CCS-equipped networks combined.
This suggests to me it’s not Tesla that’s late. If anything is a society-wide EV standard in North America, it’s the Tesla plug.
Awesome. This should be a world-wide standard. NACS (Tesla) VS CCS is like USB-A 1.0 vs USB-C with Power Delivery: CCS is unbelievably slow and clunky to the point where it might turn people off wanting an EV once they experience the slow and clunkiness.
Only Tesla owners say this. Owners of all other EVs literally don't care - except as much as they care that every other non-Tesla charger uses CCS.
They care about not having to worry about which charging station to use, not the shape of the plug.
Hilarious to call their thing the "North American Charging Standard" when every other manufacturer in North America has already standardized on something else.
They are all tiny in comparison... The vast majority of EVs in the United States use this now, and it's not just historical - Just to emphasis the most popular EV cars in the US today are: Tesla Model Y 60,271 20% 191,451 50.7% 33.2% Tesla Model 3 55,030 67% 156,357 94.5% 27.1% Ford Mustang Mach-E 10,414 – 28,089 49% 4.9% Tesla Model S 9,171 150% 23,464 79.9% 4.1% Chevy Bolt EV/EUV 14,709 226% 22,012 -11.3% 3.8% Hyun…
My bet is that within two years Tesla standardizes on CCS for its US cars (thus getting rid of an annoying upgrade/adapter/retrofit problem) and then what'll be left is the sad minority (AKA me) who are stuck with the dying standard and an annoying dongle.