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To get kids into science, just do it

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Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#81

Post by runeblaze »

dislikedtom2 wrote: post #4
rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

I'm not able to tell if this comment is satire and it worries me.

Definitely not a satire but the hard truth. Your kid might end up having a strong existential crisis about why pursuing a "science" field ends up with 80k salary jobs when with that effort you could just go to FAANG as a SWE with a much higher salary with a bachelor's degree. If you don't get there as a bachelor's, just go there with a master's.

The "strategy" is to get your kid interested in science enough so that they make a strong resume to a good college and have a strong foundation, then sway them to learn CS and get a SWE job.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#82

Post by yCombLinks »

fastneutron wrote: post #32

To the people posting about having good chemistry sets as a kid: what were these sets and where did you/your parents get them? Where are the good sources today? Everything I remember growing up in the 90s was pretty dumbed down at best, and if you wanted to order any of the interesting chemicals or equipment, you needed a company or school letterhead with a PO account. Things got better in the 00s when eBay was still…

In the 90's my aunt bought an old chemistry set from a yard sale and it was amazing! From the 60s or 70s I think. Had all kinds of crazy stuff you'd never get (even then) off a big box store shelf.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#83

Post by TexanFeller »

OgAstorga wrote: post #57
rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

More than half the American families earn less than 75k household income[1]. So the career/life prospects are grim either way. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distri...

My family made noticeably less than that, even considering inflation since then. In my home town the average family income is around half that in today’s dollars. I’m a high income SWE now. Growing up in a <$75k HH income family doesn’t imply grim prospects, that’s typical middle class. Everyone I grew up with would consider $75k high income bordering on rich.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#84

Post by AlbertCory »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #15
dislikedtom2 wrote: post #3

I remember being interested in sciences as a kid, but every time I asked for a chemistry kit or anything practical, I just got books and documentaries. Don't be those parents.

Different strokes I guess? I was always much more into the books and was put off by having to experiment. (Then I did go on to study theoretical physics ...)

For sure. I switched from E.E. into Math/CS partly because no lab experiments that you can't get to "work." It's all in your brain.

I chalk that up to immaturity. Or maybe the way labs were run back then; not sure.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#85

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #73
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, usually you just end up trading stonk at Renaissance Technologies or PanAgora. I'm not studying anything finance related and haven't even finished my phd and they've still been actively after me to sell my soul for mid six figures. The worst part was, I did the interviews to get an offer and everyone I talked to was tangibly brilliant- like could really be changing the world instead of this. I almost did it f…

What moral implications? Quants at RenTech are basically just card counters in the biggest casino in the world.

I came to the conclusion that most likely, taking the job was morally neutral- barely hurting nor helping anyone outside the firm (not specifically RT- don't want to out myself); but that on a larger scale our country is rotting because our most capable thinkers are doing this instead of anything morally positive (solving healthcare, solving the climate crisis, leading the country), and I didn't want to participate in that brain drain.

Looking at my own motivations, one of the big draws of the position was that everyone I talked to at the firm was competent and pleasant, while in domains solving real problems (again for example healthcare and climate) 70% of people I've interacted with are stupid, petty, or both. But stepping back, isn't that state of affairs existentially horrifying? If that status quo persists, will we even survive as a species?

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#86

Post by ehBut »

antasvara wrote: post #76
ehBut wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To these people as well; cooking is chemistry. Making household cleaners is chemistry. To do chemistry with kids all one needs is a grocery store, an herb shoppe, and the right explanations for what’s going on. But instead there’s bunch of waxing poetic about how the world has changed. It’s rather pathetic to think science should come neatly labeled in a box. The lack of individual creativity and imagination in our c…

As a child, a lot of innovation comes from riffing on things you see/learn from the world around you. When you talk to people that had scientific experiences as a child, a significant component of the learning comes from tinkering with already built devices, seeing an experiment and thinking "what else would work in this," etc. Science isn't neatly labeled in a box. However, a decent chunk of it is using previously d…

What you said isn’t unreasonable but so generic it hardly says “must buy chemistry set”.

“Previously done research” like “these things taste good together” and “add this to cleaner to get a nice smell.” Sounds like riffing on the world right around them. You’re not going to get functionally fixed on when and where to use generic language like “previously done research” are you?

The rigor can come in when the work demands it. Kid’s chemistry sets are not saving lives or unlocking new truths. The industrial pipeline to produce them hardly seems worth it.

You do you. Personally, I prefer the path of least resistance for myself; buying less, dealing with less mess, and using the immediate environment to explore the same language and ideas. Of course it means having an imagination. Something adults often lack, seeing the path of least resistance as living in their memory, behaving literally in lock step with it.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#87

Post by selimthegrim »

toddm wrote: post #79

My parents were both elementary school teachers. I was born in 1969. My dad had a 40-year career teaching science to 4th, 5th, and 6th graders. Think model rockets, aquariums, microscopes, chemistry sets, rock collections, and all the wide-eyed kids being exposed to that (myself included). We'd play a card game called Space Race, and I had a really cool model of the spaceship from Space: 1999. It was all quite wonder…

What do you do now?

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#88

Post by toddm »

selimthegrim wrote: post #87
toddm wrote: post #79

My parents were both elementary school teachers. I was born in 1969. My dad had a 40-year career teaching science to 4th, 5th, and 6th graders. Think model rockets, aquariums, microscopes, chemistry sets, rock collections, and all the wide-eyed kids being exposed to that (myself included). We'd play a card game called Space Race, and I had a really cool model of the spaceship from Space: 1999. It was all quite wonder…

What do you do now?

I'm trying to get back into my chosen field, specifically in computational chemistry and drug design. It's rough sledding as they say, since I am an older candidate who is hardly up to speed on where things are now vs. circa 2005.

For the past 18 years - since I left academia - I've been bouncing around as a "data scientist," working in many fields but not what I really want to do and/or am actually good at doing.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#89

Post by bergenty »

n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #35
fastneutron wrote: post #32

To the people posting about having good chemistry sets as a kid: what were these sets and where did you/your parents get them? Where are the good sources today? Everything I remember growing up in the 90s was pretty dumbed down at best, and if you wanted to order any of the interesting chemicals or equipment, you needed a company or school letterhead with a PO account. Things got better in the 00s when eBay was still…

Ever hear Kary Mullis (PCR inventor / Nobel prize) talk about his childhood? He could basically buy whatever chemical he wanted. Definitely did dangerous stuff and got into trouble, but it’s hard to imagine children today having similar ability to hone skills with brains still spungey and time still abundant.

Well now information is so accessible that with access to those chemicals you would have degenerate kids blowing up schools instead of just shooting them up.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#90

Post by analog31 »

ehBut wrote: post #69
fastneutron wrote: post #32

To the people posting about having good chemistry sets as a kid: what were these sets and where did you/your parents get them? Where are the good sources today? Everything I remember growing up in the 90s was pretty dumbed down at best, and if you wanted to order any of the interesting chemicals or equipment, you needed a company or school letterhead with a PO account. Things got better in the 00s when eBay was still…

To these people as well; cooking is chemistry. Making household cleaners is chemistry. To do chemistry with kids all one needs is a grocery store, an herb shoppe, and the right explanations for what’s going on. But instead there’s bunch of waxing poetic about how the world has changed. It’s rather pathetic to think science should come neatly labeled in a box. The lack of individual creativity and imagination in our c…

Both of my parents are chemists. My brothers and I never had a chemistry set. There was plenty to learn about chemistry, and science, just doing regular household things, outdoors, etc.
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