Suicide • Hacker News Board

Re: Suicide

#81

Post by raganwald » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:07 PM UTC

metabren wrote: post #54

_delirium wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way out is to break the chain of elevating mental isolation and negativity. How exactly to do that is the tricky part, though (and not just tricky for individuals, but the subject of much debate in psychiatry). Possibilities include pharmacological intervention, therapy, or some sort of change in circumstances. The latter is a really large set of options, but also poorly understood: there are semi-regular…

> How exactly to do that is the tricky part, though A good start might be with the book "Learned Optimism" from Martin Seligman — http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/0... . He argues that most depression is just severe learned helplessness caused by your own pessimistic inner explanations of why events happened. He makes a good case for it & suggests techniques to build better explanatory habit…

I don’t know if it is helpful with suicidal thoughts, but Learned Optimism has helped me with a more generalized despondency and helplessness:

https://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-05-...

My won feelings about helplessness learning to play Go parallel feelings if helplessness in my life trying other things where it felt like I had no idea what I was doing and no control over the outcome:

https://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-10-...

Again, I don’t know if any of this is helpful when someone is at the point of contemplating ending their own life.

Re: Suicide

#82

Post by theorique » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:09 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #59

It wasn’t really right to put this in the post, but: http://samroweis1972-2010.blogspot.com/ I miss you, Sam.

I know him from high school. A great talent and a really nice guy, lost far too young.

Re: Suicide

#83

Post by HotKFreshSwag » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:09 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #75

HotKFreshSwag wrote: post #71

If you're one of the 95% of humans who live outside the US and Canada and you want to talk here is a list of numbers to call: http://www.suicide.org/international-suicide-hotlines.html

May I quote you?

If you google it you'll find some more lists I'm not sure if the one I linked is the most comprehensive one.

Re: Suicide

#84

Post by chc » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:09 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #70

chc wrote: post #64

This is a good thing to post. It's uncomfortable to talk about, but it needs to be done, so thank you, raganwald. That said, if I can offer just a small critique: I always found the sentiment of "Just talk to someone" to be insufficient, because even if other people might understand, sometimes you don't feel like they should have to understand. If I'm too weak to handle my circumstances myself, you'll reason, it woul…

Thank you! I am not a professional and there’s no particular reason that what I write is going to be helpful, and as others have pointed out, such appeals might sometimes be harmful. In the end, my moral dilemna feels like the “Politician’s Fallacy:” - Something must be done. - This is something. - Therefore we must do it. But doing the wrong thing is often worse than doing nothing at all.

Oh, to be clear, I'm not a professional either. I've just known a few people with bad depression and that was something they struggled with — the feeling that getting help was a bad thing.

Re: Suicide

#85

Post by tokenadult » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:10 PM UTC

oomkiller wrote: post #12

This is a good little post, but you actually are branded in the US if you seek paid treatment for depression. See this: http://behavioral.kaiserpapers.org/prozacharm.html

I know many counterexamples of people in various states who have received health insurance coverage even after seeking treatment for depression. The problem of denial of coverage for "preexisting conditions" is much broader than that, anyway. Insurance companies have been playing that game for so long with so many different disease conditions that regulation is increasingly denying the companies the scope to write their contracts in that manner.

Re: Suicide

#86

Post by freemarketteddy » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:11 PM UTC

fady wrote: post #53

[deleted] wrote: post #37

[deleted]

wow. that is very honest of you avner. dude, keep smiling :) and don't fucking check out. i don't care about your responsibilities. you are more important then all of those and then some. i mean, i have no idea what you're going through, besides what was stated, but i do know that you are more important than anything else in your world (unless you have kids) then they come first, then you ;) if you live in SF, i'd lo…

haha I'd totally come toke with you guys and talk about life,love and all that stuff LOL!

Re: Suicide

#87

Post by seiji » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:12 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #63

seiji wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been entirely sure. A while ago I made http://suicidescale.com/ but the wording still feels awkward to me. You have to strike a balance between explaining and understanding without sounding condescending. Explaining the temporary condition can help so people know they aren't alone (knowing you are one of millions who have had the same exact thought processes is a wake up call). Mentioning the processes can…

I just checked your website. I'm in the step 5. And, yes, I now feel this post is very dangerous because I never thought of suicide. Worse. I have recently dropped of colleague and don't have any friends right now. (didn't talk with a human for something like 15-20 days). Any quick remedies? I'm feeling more anxious.

As vtail said, professional help is the long term treatment. If you need a quick fix, shrink your mind down to simple tasks using internet drugs: cuteoverload, reddit, hulu, tvtropes, HN, plan a trip to japan (doesn't matter if you even go), http://symphonyofscience.com/videos.html , ...

For me, two things help: reminding myself nothing matters as much as I think it matters and setting a medium-term goal. Our decisions can be anything and it's fine. The world--universe--is a big place. Take risks. Nothing worthwhile is judging you. So, build something new. Meet people. If you make a fool of yourself, it doesn't matter at all. Let other people wonder why you're impervious to their hostility. You've seen the truth. In the grand scheme of things, we can't even be seen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Deep_Field

The world is yours to do with as you please. Take advantage of it.

Re: Suicide

#88

Post by tokenadult » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:13 PM UTC

maeon3 wrote: post #27

Ive associated suicide as correlated with too much logic. It takes a litle bit of delusion deep in the core of your being to assign value, meaning and purpose to the process of moving molecules from a high energy state to lower energy states. Which is all we are doing. Convincing a logical person that delusion is needed is a tough sell. Ive had the experience of trying to talk some normality into a suicidal person. I…

There are specific video materials prepared for psychiatric nurses on how to communicate with people who have delusional belief systems or other problems with thinking.

http://www.psychiatricwellness.com/videos.htm

Re: Suicide

#89

Post by stonemetal » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:14 PM UTC

dextorious wrote: post #35

raganwald wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is: http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/suicide.asp Snopes suggest it falls slightly over the holiday from 34 per million people to 30 per million people and then rises to 41 per million people at New Year’s.

It might be a myth, but but snopes' 2 obscure references to some "studies" that cover a tiny region of the world are hardly compelling evidence. I want more proof either for or against this notion. Snopes stories have the same problem that urban legends have: people are quick to believe them without checking it more, and for the same reason, feeling superior to those who don't know (the myth|the debunking).

Snopes tries to combat this by having fake stories as well. They are all segregated into The Repository Of Lost Legends(TROLL) section of the website though.

Re: Suicide

#90

Post by droithomme » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:18 PM UTC

Some people I have known got to the point where they've tried calling those hotlines. Their feedback is that the hotlines were not useful at all and just made them more frustrated. Perhaps there are better options?

Since this is posted here I'll assume highly intelligent but depressed people are the target audience. Do we know that methods used at hotlines work on all categories of people equally?

When I was in high school several decades ago I knew a girl that had seriously attempted it a few times. One day I brainstormed with her on more interesting ways she could do it. Some quite flamboyant, which required drawing diagrams. I got in trouble for having this discussion with her. But she stopped trying and later told me it was because the conversation she had with me was the first time someone had really heard her talking and treated her as an individual rather than just try to stop her from being depressed because depression makes the fake happiness society uncomfortable.