Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap • Hacker News Board

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#81

Post by fluidcruft » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

jacob019 wrote: post #60

sschueller wrote: post #10

To any app dev. If your app is only available via snap I will not be using it. Also certbot, shame on you for removing the Debian repository in favor of snap.

I understand the appeal as the developer, Linux package management is heavily fragmented. The snap is build once deploy everywhere. But there are a lot of drawbacks for the user. I don't want my applications to be huge bundles that use twice the ram and have an alternate update system. As a primarily Debian user, I would much rather have a deb repo. If they insist on bundling it like this, flatpak would be a better c…

It is officially distributed to linux as debs (see https://signal.org/download/).

The snap identifies itself as an unofficial snap package of signal-desktop so my assumption is this is third-party volunteers repackaging it for snap users (and possibly non-deb systems).

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#82

Post by SSLy » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

googlryas wrote: post #75

mesebrec wrote: post #65

Signal Snap Maintainer here, this is because of a DMCA takedown request from lawyers representing Signal. Canonical is currently working with them to clear things up. Canonical's communication to me was initially lacking due to issues in their process, the process has been amended and I'm back in the loop again.

So you're saying signal requested their own program be removed from the snap store? Sorry, I'm a little confused on terms. When you say snap maintainer, are you saying you are the maintainer of the signal snap package, or that you're a maintainer of snap itself?

> are you saying you are the maintainer of the signal snap package

They are, yes. Well, former maintainer.

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#83

Post by commoner » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #30

Well, I have been using Ubuntu for many years. This kind of thing, centralizing packages and removing one without explanation etc makes me think I should move on. I suppose the alternative is to switch to Debian? Or maybe there is something totally different that is becoming popular that I don't know about yet?

I switched from Ubuntu to Debian on the server side when Canonical started pushing Snaps on Ubuntu Server. Having a server dependency on a proprietary app store is unacceptable to me when open alternatives are available. Debian makes sense because it's upstream from Ubuntu and known for stability.

On the desktop side, Debian is also a stable choice, but you might prefer to go downstream from Ubuntu to get newer features sooner. Snap-free distros based on Ubuntu include Pop!_OS, Linux Mint, and elementary OS. There are also popular distros not based on Debian or Ubuntu, including Arch Linux (and its derivatives) and Fedora.

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#84

Post by 369548684892826 » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

TheRealPomax wrote: post #4

After reading the thread, I still have no idea why it got removed, so: why did it get removed? What part(s) of the snap policies did they violate, and how is it possible that even something doesn't charge $100 a year before you can even publish a snap doesn't even notify the maintainers that their app got removed? Just because you run an app store doesn't mean Apple and Google's opaque refusal system is the part you…

The thread's just been updated to say that Signal themselves issued a DMCA takedown notice against the Snap Store.

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#85

Post by award_ » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #74

mesebrec wrote: post #65

Signal Snap Maintainer here, this is because of a DMCA takedown request from lawyers representing Signal. Canonical is currently working with them to clear things up. Canonical's communication to me was initially lacking due to issues in their process, the process has been amended and I'm back in the loop again.

Yet another reason not to use Signal. The correct behavior would have been for signal to offer an official snap or to contact the maintainer. Instead they send their legal team...

What are your others? I use signal alot personally and haven't had too many issues.

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#86

Post by nottorp » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

mesebrec wrote: post #65

Signal Snap Maintainer here, this is because of a DMCA takedown request from lawyers representing Signal. Canonical is currently working with them to clear things up. Canonical's communication to me was initially lacking due to issues in their process, the process has been amended and I'm back in the loop again.

This deserves a lot of publicity. Why send a DMCA takedown instead of contact the people involved?

Will they do the same if some vulnerability is found in Signal? Lawyer up instead of fix the problem?

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#87

Post by SSLy » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

ElijahLynn wrote: post #79

mesebrec wrote: post #65

Signal Snap Maintainer here, this is because of a DMCA takedown request from lawyers representing Signal. Canonical is currently working with them to clear things up. Canonical's communication to me was initially lacking due to issues in their process, the process has been amended and I'm back in the loop again.

Thanks for the explanation Galgalesh! Can you post this update on the Snapcraft ( https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-happened-to-signal-desktop... ) and GitHub threads ( https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70 ) too? I was going to just now and cross link back here to your comment and figured it would be better coming from you directly!

They just did comment on that discourse thread.

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#88

Post by asdajksah2123 » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

smallerfish wrote: post #62

mort96 wrote: post #3

This is not a good look. The snap has been gone for almost a month, with seemingly no information given to the maintainer or users about why, except a belated "we removed it for policy reasons" 21 days ago. And if this happens to maintainers associated with Snapcrafters , imagine how you're treated if you're just some random person or company who maintains your own snap. This is the sort of reason why people are conc…

While this incident isn't good, I still think the setup is a ton better than Flathub, where you have flatpaks being maintained by third parties with no relationship to the software vendors. For example, all of the Jetbrains snaps are managed by a volunteer, as is Zoom (!) Compromise one of those devs' personal computers, and you've now got a path to getting a backdoor out to everybody using those. I trust Canonical's…

The problem here is that JetBrains and Zoom have chosen not to package their apps as Flatpaks.

There is nothing stopping Canonical from offering a Flatpak based App Store that only contains approved and vetted apps.

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#89

Post by sschueller » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

award_ wrote: post #85

sschueller wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another reason not to use Signal. The correct behavior would have been for signal to offer an official snap or to contact the maintainer. Instead they send their legal team...

What are your others? I use signal alot personally and haven't had too many issues.

  - Still need a phone number
  - They refuse to post the app on f-droid (directly)
  - No 3rd party clients allowed on their servers.
  - Crypto thing they attempted
  - I don't trust Moxie, he rubs me the wrong way.

Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

#90

Post by smoldesu » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

smallerfish wrote: post #71

freedomben wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the third party maintainer relationship a policy choice by flatpak? or is that just the case because the maintainer built the flatpak first?

It's because Zoom / Jetbrains haven't stepped up to package their software as flatpak, so volunteers got in there. There's a flathub policy that a flatpak project will be handed over to the vendor to maintain if they make that request - which is definitely good, but the fact of those volunteers being able to do this (however well intentioned) is not.

Yep. On top of that, some people just straight-up don't intend to port their software to Flatpak. There are a lot of unofficially supported packages (or incomplete ports) that will remain that way forever, which really makes Flatpak no better than the AUR in many respects.

The biggest problem IMO is that Flatpak coupled itself too closely with Bubblewrap. Flatpak is missing many key features because of this (support for running services???), and it makes zero sense in the context of a modern desktop. Apps like Flatseal should focus on sandboxing regular applications with Bubblewrap rather than trying to manage all of the software on it's own. As-is, Flatpak is the last resort of packaging methods for all of my systems, even behind Snap.