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Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

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Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#81

Post by rippercushions »

HWR_14 wrote: post #27
rippercushions wrote: post #3

The article makes a major mistake: it uses Tokyo Metropolis (Tokyo-to, basically "Tokyo State", area 2,194.07 km2) for comparisons, not central Tokyo (23-ku, aka the former Tokyo City, area 619 km2). So it's basically the same as saying houses in New York are much larger than those in Paris, because you're comparing all of New York State including housing in Buffalo etc with the 20 arrondissements of central Paris. >…

> because you're comparing all of New York State including housing in Buffalo etc with the 20 arrondissements of central Paris. But isn't the entire Tokyo Metropolis under an hour by mass transit? That's a far cry from Buffalo. Like, Buffalo cannot commute to NYC by anything other than private aircraft.

Technically Tokyo Metropolis includes some islands several hours by plane south of Tokyo, including Iwo Jima of WW2 fame. Their combined population is only a rounding error compared to the mainland though.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#82

Post by smcl »

johnwalkr wrote: post #55
Jach wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also heard it's rather easier for a foreigner to buy than to find a willing landlord...

That's a stretch and it is hard to get a home loan in your first years. It is true that when searching for a rental you will probably come across landlords that don't rent to foreigners, and more that won't rent to Chinese people. Many landlords also expect you to speak at least some Japanese. That being said, it's competitive only for average sized/priced places. Both low end and above-average properties are easier…

Just out of curiosity - is it largely just "I only speak Japanese and don't know how I'd deal with a foreigner" thing or do those kinds of landlords tend to think negatively of the foreigners?

As an immigrant I know it can be a bit fiddly to resolve some things when there's a language barrier, but as long as both sides are patient and willing to try things can go relatively smoothly

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#83

Post by seanmcdirmid »

dcolkitt wrote: post #74

Should also be noted that Tokyo is one of the few major metropolises in the world where the price of housing has not meaningfully increased in real terms since 2000[1]. The Japanese constitution drastically limits zoning, building and land use restrictions. As a result the city of Tokyo builds more new housing than all of California or England.[2] (And no, this isn't because of Japan's demographics. While Japan as a…

Even though everyone wants to live in Tokyo, the same is true for hit real estate markets in other countries that it is being compared to. We aren’t comparing Tokyo to Duluth.

Lack of building codes like must have central heat or must have bathroom also can bring housing prices down.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#84

Post by diceduckmonk »

dark-star wrote: post #77

if you can't even tell where Tokyo and Osaka are on your maps, you probably shouldn't publish articles about Japan. Who knows what other numbers or diagrams are wrong there...

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2323:_Modeling_St...

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#85

Post by logicalmonster »

Outside of either aggressive capitalist desire to continuously lower wages or some groups wanting to destroy Japanese culture, I've never understood why there was such an extreme panic by some about Japan's lower birth rates to the point that they urged mass immigration there.

A stabilizing population on an island with limited space seems like a good thing. A little more space opens up for living and real-estate prices might become more favorable. Maybe there's room for more parks and other things that make life good. When conditions become more favorable, people will be able to reproduce more.

We see in the animal kingdom the predator-prey cycle that population takes care of itself. When there's too many rabbits or deer, there's no cause for concern: the plentiful food supply means that wolves and foxes will be able to reproduce more and take care of the situation. When there's too many wolves/foxes and the situation reverses, the scarce food supply means that the predators aren't able to flourish and the rabbits and deer are able to reproduce more.

I'd say that the human desire for reproduction might work in the same way, only instead of prey, maybe real-estate prices and quality of life is the cyclical variable to note.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#86

Post by [deleted] »

smcl wrote: post #82
johnwalkr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a stretch and it is hard to get a home loan in your first years. It is true that when searching for a rental you will probably come across landlords that don't rent to foreigners, and more that won't rent to Chinese people. Many landlords also expect you to speak at least some Japanese. That being said, it's competitive only for average sized/priced places. Both low end and above-average properties are easier…

Just out of curiosity - is it largely just "I only speak Japanese and don't know how I'd deal with a foreigner" thing or do those kinds of landlords tend to think negatively of the foreigners? As an immigrant I know it can be a bit fiddly to resolve some things when there's a language barrier, but as long as both sides are patient and willing to try things can go relatively smoothly

[deleted]

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#87

Post by rdsubhas »

jstrong wrote: post #80
newaccount74 wrote: post #57

I think measuring per person is pretty misleading. A single person living in a 25m^2 appartment would be quite cramped. A family with two young kids living in 100m^2 is pretty spacious. So if you look at living space per person, then societies with smaller household sizes will appear to have more living space per person. so if you measure that, you also have to compare how many people are in households as well.

> A family with two young kids living in 100m^2 is pretty spacious. depends on your perspective, I guess! that sounds horribly cramped to me.

It's not about perspective. Both average to 25m2 per person, but they are vastly, unambiguously different.

In a 100m2 home: 3x15m2 bedrooms, 25m2 living room, 10m2 kitchen and you still got 20m2 left.

It's no comparison to a single 25m2 apartment where all these functions have to fit.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#89

Post by mistrial9 »

there is a maps-and-data company in Berkeley, California (urban planners) that maintains detailed and mostly-current information on occupancy for all of California; both renters and homes; unending policy battles behind-the-scenes about covid-19 and eviction very much at the fore. (trivia it is in the same physical building as the old After Dark screensaver company, so long ago)

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#90

Post by seanmcdirmid »

franciscop wrote: post #7
rgmerk wrote: post #5

Paris, London and New York - the key points of comparison - aren’t exactly known for their spacious housing. One other point that many of the Tokyo fans don’t acknowledge is how extraordinarily ugly the place is. Sure, it’s clean (more than you can say for New York) but clearly nobody in Tokyo cares about what their house looks like from the outside. And I’ve never seen more miserable public parks in a developed coun…

I have to agree and disagree :) First, it's not clean, it's just different way of unclean and only during certain periods of the day. But during too many hours of the day in popular areas it's normal to see literal piles of trash on the street covered in rats, and in the morning with crows. On the other hand, there's no littering, virtually no homelessness (nor their encampments, etc) and finally no cars on the stree…

> On the other hand, there's no littering, virtually no homelessness (nor their encampments, etc) and finally no cars on the street, which makes the city look a lot cleaner.

Last time I visited Tokyo in 2016 there was clearly an encampment at the Ueno park. And that wasn’t the first time I saw an encampment in Japan (visiting Tokyo in 2008 I saw a few in Tokyo and Osaka). However, Japanese homeless encampments are always very clean and well organized. It’s a completely different feel from the states (even if they definitely exist).

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