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Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

noyb.eu

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Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#81

Post by chriswarbo »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #66
chriswarbo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also need a cookie banner in EU in case your website uses any cookies that are not necessary to serve the content. Not quite, for two reasons: - The law doesn't care about cookies, it cares about personal data, which includes any data which can individually identify someone (like a cookie associating them with a user account). If you're collecting or processing any personal data, that requires consent; even if…

You're only talking about the GDPR. But the cookie banners aren't there because of the GDPR, they're there because of the ePrivacy Directive. It's this directive (which pre-dates the GDPR) that makes it illegal to store or access data on the end user's devices without consent unless it is strictly necessary for the provision of the service.

> makes it illegal to store or access data on the end user's devices without consent unless it is strictly necessary for the provision of the service.

How is that different to what I said above? (Modulo "s/without consent/implicit consent/g")

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#82

Post by tpush »

Reason077 wrote: post #53

Cookie pop-ups are incredibly annoying and greatly harm the usability of the web. Either GDPR should be updated to ban consent pop-ups and simply make “REJECT” the default everywhere, or the consent UI should be moved to the browser where defaults (accept/reject/ask) can be set for all websites.

Reject is the default! That's the point of the law in the first place. If you, for example, blocked every consent dialog from appearing, no website would have legal grounds to track you (except for legitime purposes yada-yada).

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#83

Post by willi59549879 »

anonbrowser wrote: post #80

I read 90% of the comments on this and everyone seems unanimously onboard with these annoying banners. The claim is they save the web. I can’t be the only one that feels these banners are destroying the web experience. There has to be a better way to improve privacy without simultaneously nuking user experience.

the banners hinder reading. Mostly i try to ignore the banners and if it is too obtrusive i'll just leave the site again. The banners are a dark pattern.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#84

Post by Macha »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #72
ketzu wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not just client storage either, it could also be ephemereal computed fingerprinting with server side tracking.

No, it is just client storage. The law is explicitly only about client storage: >Member States shall ensure that the use of electronic communications networks to store information or to gain access to information stored in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user is only allowed on condition that the subscriber or user concerned is provided with clear and comprehensive information in accordance with Directive 9…

It is GDPR and not PECR that sites responded to with the cookie banners that we deal with today, and GDPR covers a much broader surface area ("processing of personal data")

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#85

Post by chriswarbo »

coldtea wrote: post #51
chriswarbo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an interaction-free solution; it's called 'do not track' (as in, not tracking users). The EU don't mandate it, since that would probably be considered over-reach: if Web sites want to break their UI and annoy their users, they're free to do so. Consent for personal data is implied when performing services for a user (e.g. logging in, shopping carts, remembering high-scores, etc.). Interactions are only neede…

> There is an interaction-free solution; it's called 'do not track' (as in, not tracking users). The EU don't mandate it If it's not mandated it's not a solution, it's more like a pacifist asking for peace in the middle of WWII > The EU don't mandate it, since that would probably be considered over-reach I don't think that's the reason, as it wouldn't be any more overeach than mandating the current cookie notice (or,…

> I don't think that's the reason, as it wouldn't be any more overeach than mandating the current cookie notice

As viraptor says, cookie banners are not mandated; they're a crappy UX invented by ad companies.

In any case, regardless of one's personal opinions on user tracking, I don't understand how 'cookie notices' are at all equivalent to a flat-out ban on all tracking by anyone ever.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#86

Post by jacooper »

thomas-st wrote: post #2

I wish cookie settings were part of the browser (e.g. I want to reject all marketing cookies but not essential ones), have a way in JS/HTTP to indicate the type of the cookie, and never see those cookie popups again.

It already exists. https://globalprivacycontrol.org/

But websites will never use it because they make it annoying on purpose.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#87

Post by Reason077 »

Eisenstein wrote: post #56
Reason077 wrote: post #53

Cookie pop-ups are incredibly annoying and greatly harm the usability of the web. Either GDPR should be updated to ban consent pop-ups and simply make “REJECT” the default everywhere, or the consent UI should be moved to the browser where defaults (accept/reject/ask) can be set for all websites.

The nightly build of Brave will automatically manage the banners for you.

Great! I hope all browsers get this feature.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#88

Post by ketzu »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #72
ketzu wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not just client storage either, it could also be ephemereal computed fingerprinting with server side tracking.

No, it is just client storage. The law is explicitly only about client storage: >Member States shall ensure that the use of electronic communications networks to store information or to gain access to information stored in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user is only allowed on condition that the subscriber or user concerned is provided with clear and comprehensive information in accordance with Directive 9…

Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. I didn't correctly parse the previous responses.

* Grandparent was talking about getting rid of cookie banners.

* Parent was talking about API to prevent tracking needing an extension for all local storage.

Of course to get rid of the original cookie banners, preventing tracking through other means is irrelevant. But nowadays most sites I visited got rid of the original cookie banners, so in my mind the complaints extend to those, even if it's not correct.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#89

Post by Reason077 »

dmitriid wrote: post #75
Reason077 wrote: post #53

Cookie pop-ups are incredibly annoying and greatly harm the usability of the web. Either GDPR should be updated to ban consent pop-ups and simply make “REJECT” the default everywhere, or the consent UI should be moved to the browser where defaults (accept/reject/ask) can be set for all websites.

> Either GDPR should be updated to ban consent pop-ups and simply make “REJECT” the default everywhere That is literally in the law. Article 7.3 https://gdpr.eu/article-7-how-to-get-consent-to-collect-pers... --- start quote, emphasis mine --- The data subject shall have the right to withdraw his or her consent at any time. The withdrawal of consent shall not affect the lawfulness of processing based on consent befor…

> "That is literally in the law."

No, the law does the opposite. It effectively requires the use of pop-ups to "gain consent", it doesn't ban them. At least, that's how it's been interpreted in practice.

> "And also. GDPR isn't just about browsers or cookies. It's about data in general. Which includes all other situations, including offline interactions, gaming, and communication with governments."

Absolutely. In general the GDPR is a good thing. But it needs a rework to fix the cookie consent situation.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#90

Post by Reason077 »

tpush wrote: post #82
Reason077 wrote: post #53

Cookie pop-ups are incredibly annoying and greatly harm the usability of the web. Either GDPR should be updated to ban consent pop-ups and simply make “REJECT” the default everywhere, or the consent UI should be moved to the browser where defaults (accept/reject/ask) can be set for all websites.

Reject is the default! That's the point of the law in the first place. If you, for example, blocked every consent dialog from appearing, no website would have legal grounds to track you (except for legitime purposes yada-yada).

> "Reject is the default!"

I wish that was true.

> "If you, for example, blocked every consent dialog from appearing, no website would have legal grounds to track you (except for legitime purposes yada-yada)."

Sounds good to me!

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