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Online card payments still suck

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Re: Online card payments still suck

#81

Post by pshc »

tombert wrote: post #78
djschnei wrote: post #74

If only there was an instantaneous, nearly free (cost per transaction), opensource, anyone-can-access, infinitely scalable, infinitely interoperable, payment rail that we could start building solutions on top of...

If you're referring to cryptocurrency, isn't the average cost-per-transaction for something like Ethereum on the order of $40-$50?

It’s more like $1 these days due to the bear market, granted these remain high fees.

Cheaper payments can be sent on a zero-knowledge Layer 2 like starknet or zksync. Beta services but usable (except the whole on-ramp off-ramp part). Once sharding is implemented, fees are likely to drop to sub-cent levels.

Ideally payments would be anonymized on a privacy-preserving L3, but I don’t think those exist yet

Re: Online card payments still suck

#82

Post by Foobar8568 »

phphphphp wrote: post #3
eraad wrote: post #2

If card networks, issuers, acquirers, processors and gateways used bitcoin as their settlement layer, most of the current issues would be automatically solved. They could focus engineering resources on creating better user experiences, anti-fraud, etc. Consumers can keep using their tokenized credit cards, debit cards, etc, but their money would be moved using the bitcoin time chain, instead of hundred of CSV files.…

xml via ftp is used across many industries because these systems are decades old: there are many suitable replacements — the problem is not that there isn’t solutions, it’s that changing old systems is very hard. Bitcoin doesn’t solve that.

Xml+sftp For data transfer in 2022, best in class yeah!

Re: Online card payments still suck

#83

Post by _trackno5 »

No surprises here.

Cards should've been deprecated as a payment method long ago.

Brazil's Pix, Netherlands's iDEAL, Poland's BLIK, etc, are all better payment methods that follow a push model (i.e., the customer actively confirms the purchase on their phone) instead of pull model (i.e., I send my card details to the store and it forwards it to the card network).

I really hope the EU gets its shit together and moves forward with TIPS[0]. I would love for this to become a requirement for all banks in the Eurozone.

[0] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/target/tips/html/index.en.htm...

Re: Online card payments still suck

#84

Post by landemva »

tombert wrote: post #78
djschnei wrote: post #74

If only there was an instantaneous, nearly free (cost per transaction), opensource, anyone-can-access, infinitely scalable, infinitely interoperable, payment rail that we could start building solutions on top of...

If you're referring to cryptocurrency, isn't the average cost-per-transaction for something like Ethereum on the order of $40-$50?

Just sending a payment is typically cheap for eth. Calling a lot of code can get expensive for the code execution costs, though L2s are available for that if you do it regularly.

Re: Online card payments still suck

#85

Post by landemva »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #79
djschnei wrote: post #74

If only there was an instantaneous, nearly free (cost per transaction), opensource, anyone-can-access, infinitely scalable, infinitely interoperable, payment rail that we could start building solutions on top of...

what's the cost of lightning Network these days?? I like where your head's at but the fact that it's possible to do an overthrow of the system if you have 51% of the miners worries me.

> overthrow of the system if you have 51%

You may want to look into this further as it is fascinating. For example, a theoretical reorg to unspend or respend your own transaction does not allow signing transactions for others.

Re: Online card payments still suck

#86

Post by landemva »

pavlov wrote: post #37
fragmede wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accounts are the first thing that come to mind. right now, I have an account at my bank, and I need to meet certain requirements to have that account. Web3 wallet accounts have no such requirements, and creating a whole new account is just a click away. To make a payment, because my web wallet is already linked, I just select which wallet I want to make a payment from. No need to type out my credit card number. Apple…

Creating an empty crypto account is just a click away. But, as a new user, how do you move funds into the account? You must go through an exchange which is subject to the same KYC and anti-money-laundering regulations as a bank. So it's not actually any easier. After all, banks can also create any number of additional accounts for you in their internal system once you're a customer.

Buy it from your friends.

Re: Online card payments still suck

#87

Post by djschnei »

tombert wrote: post #78
djschnei wrote: post #74

If only there was an instantaneous, nearly free (cost per transaction), opensource, anyone-can-access, infinitely scalable, infinitely interoperable, payment rail that we could start building solutions on top of...

If you're referring to cryptocurrency, isn't the average cost-per-transaction for something like Ethereum on the order of $40-$50?

Not Ethereum. Ethereum has a lot of massive problems. Not 'crypto' which is by and large a scam.

I'm talking about Bitcoin with The Lightning Network.

Most payments I make over Lightning, regardless of size, carry a fee of fractions of a cent. On an average day I make 50+ payments over lightning - on aggregate the fees add up to less than $.01

Re: Online card payments still suck

#88

Post by boring_twenties »

wwilim wrote: post #14

In Poland, we have this wonderful system called BLIK. You provide nothing except a single-use 6-digit code, then you confirm the payment in your bank's mobile app. It works in online payments, physical stores and ATMs, it supports bank transfers using just a phone number, and recently it's been upgraded to support contactless payments as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blik

So, you can't pay if you don't have your phone on you, or it's not charged, or the network connection is spotty?

Re: Online card payments still suck

#89

Post by djschnei »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #79
djschnei wrote: post #74

If only there was an instantaneous, nearly free (cost per transaction), opensource, anyone-can-access, infinitely scalable, infinitely interoperable, payment rail that we could start building solutions on top of...

what's the cost of lightning Network these days?? I like where your head's at but the fact that it's possible to do an overthrow of the system if you have 51% of the miners worries me.

Average fees are fractions of a cent.

Centralized systems are much easier to capture and historically always are.

A 51% attack on Bitcoin/Lightning isn't impossible, but incredibly unlikely.

https://www.swanbitcoin.com/fact-check-darpa-funded-report-o...

Re: Online card payments still suck

#90

Post by [deleted] »

valdiorn wrote: post #24
fragmede wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accounts are the first thing that come to mind. right now, I have an account at my bank, and I need to meet certain requirements to have that account. Web3 wallet accounts have no such requirements, and creating a whole new account is just a click away. To make a payment, because my web wallet is already linked, I just select which wallet I want to make a payment from. No need to type out my credit card number. Apple…

"right now, I have an account at my bank, and I need to meet certain requirements to have that account." Hello, my name is money laundering. Why do you think the bank has those "requirements"? Do you think they just hate their customers, or do you think the government enforces this regulation onto the banks to prevent money laundering? Because it's definitely the latter. ... and it's already coming for crypto.

[deleted]
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