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I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

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Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#81

Post by xboxnolifes »

bhhaskin wrote: post #67
breput wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds like most of the upgrades are about convenience to the power company. Not anything safety related, which is why older properties are exempt. That is definitely not true. An 80 year old house might not even have grounded outlets, let alone GFCI or AFCI protected outlets. > You also have to remember that it takes a lot of power to be able to change an EV in timely manner Nobody worries about how many electr…

GFCI and AFCI are great! But a home isn't going to burst into flames or explode without them. Which is why there are exemptions. 240v at 30A is most definitely not a trivial load. Most homes have 100 amp service. That would be 30% of your homes total power capacity just for changing EV. You wouldn't be able to run AC and the dryer and charge an EV at the same time at that rate. But more importantly there is only so m…

> GFCI and AFCI are great! But a home isn't going to burst into flames or explode without them. Which is why there are exemptions.

True, but not what you said. You said the changes are not safety related, but these are safety related.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#82

Post by bhhaskin »

zizee wrote: post #77
bhhaskin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is hydrogen dead? There are a few hydrogen hybrids coming to market like the BMW i3. It has a 300 mile range and can refill in 5 minutes. Converting to hydrogen makes wayyy more sense than EV infrastructure. All of the gas station can be easily converted to hydrogen stations with different pumps and tanks. A lot cheaper than running MW of power for a EV station or upgrading neighborhoods. Then there are people th…

> Why is hydrogen dead? Car manufacturers are all releasing EVs. How many are really mass producing hydrogen vehicles? It's a scale and chicken/egg (or two sides market) problem. Gas stations won't convert until there is a decent number of hydrogen cars on the road (in the area the station is in), and people won't buy hydrogen vehicles if there are no stations to refill at. Manufacturers won't be able to scale produc…

Both BMW and Toyota have hydrogen cars.

We are talking about the infrastructure of EVs not EVs them selfs. The price is dropping on EVs, but that won't matter if most people can't charge them. Which is the problem.

Vandalism is becoming more and more of a problem with EV charging stations. People are stealing the Copper wires. That will be a major issue at apartment complexes if they install charging stations.

The US. department of energy is pushing to have $1 per kilogram by 2030. ($2 per kilogram by 2025). The Toyota Mirai can go 402 miles on 16.8kg of hydrogen. And it takes 5 minutes to fill up.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#83

Post by fomine3 »

bhhaskin wrote: post #72
cycrutchfield wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Converting to hydrogen makes wayyy more sense than EV infrastructure. All of the gas station can be easily converted to hydrogen stations with different pumps and tanks. A lot cheaper than running MW of power for a EV station or upgrading neighborhoods. Care to cite any sources?

We are literally commenting on a post about how upgrading to EV charging was cost prohibited.

Source for hydrogen conversion cost

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#84

Post by seattle_spring »

natch wrote: post #34

You do not need an EV charger to charge your EV. A 110 or 220 outlet with a cord and an adapter will work just fine. Apologies for the US centric terminology but I expect the situation is roughly the same (though numbers vary) elsewhere. We did TWO Teslas in an apartment for two years sharing (alternating cars) a single plug of a single 110 outlet. It was fine. With this arrangement, yes, on days where you do big tri…

Spending 30+ minutes not including added drive time to go to a supercharger everytime I want to go to the city or on a hike is not even close to a "very, very minor inconvenience." Speak for yourself, as I would bet money that the majority of EV owners find significant value and benefit from at-home L2 charging.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#85

Post by Defitio »

silisili wrote: post #44
Defitio wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Are you not cooking? Our stove needs 1kw and our oven has 6kw. It's not crashing when everyone is cooking why would it crash when everyone is charging? Also it costs more (energy wise) to make H and then consume it than using the energy itself. This should probably has a relevant cost saving. Economy of scale will bring much cheaper batteries very soon. Let's say 10-20 years

Cooking is super bursty, and at variable times, and for short durations. And even then, varies by day. It's not at all the same as everyone on planet earth in the same hemisphere trying to charge their cars during peak summer AC time, between 4 and 6ish pm.

Either you charge over night than you can charge slow and steady ( I did this at my parents house a few times with 800watts or so, which is not a lot) or at work where you already can have smart charging.

Independent of this, plenty of counties use energy to heat (consumes a lot) or have ac which also pulls a lot.

Ev charging is estimated with 10% additional load on a power grid. That's doable.

Is it a challenge? Yes. In one place more than in another place

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#86

Post by oliwarner »

oceanplexian wrote: post #41

I lived in a ranch-style home in California. Literally added a new breaker, ran 30’ of Romex rated for 50A, and wired up an EV charger in about 2-3 hours. It’s not rocket science. Now, obviously some panels don’t have the space, or the service to the house isn’t enough amps but if that’s a case why aren’t you upgrading a 50 year-old electrical panel anyway? It sounds like OP had a bunch of deferred electrical mainten…

> It’s not rocket science

And an earth rod, right?

Anyone can stick a breaker in, run some cable, but it takes the rocket scientists to consider neutral fault conditions, causing potential between your home, charger, car and literal earth.

It might not apply to you. Your charger might have built in protection (many don't) or your supply might be grounded to the literal earth… but this is why we have building regs and people to follow them. Even if you do the work, it's worth a chat with a qualified electrician, and to have them inspect your work. It could save your life.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#87

Post by [deleted] »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #81
bhhaskin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GFCI and AFCI are great! But a home isn't going to burst into flames or explode without them. Which is why there are exemptions. 240v at 30A is most definitely not a trivial load. Most homes have 100 amp service. That would be 30% of your homes total power capacity just for changing EV. You wouldn't be able to run AC and the dryer and charge an EV at the same time at that rate. But more importantly there is only so m…

> GFCI and AFCI are great! But a home isn't going to burst into flames or explode without them. Which is why there are exemptions. True, but not what you said. You said the changes are not safety related, but these are safety related.

[deleted]

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#88

Post by zizee »

bhhaskin wrote: post #82
zizee wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is hydrogen dead? Car manufacturers are all releasing EVs. How many are really mass producing hydrogen vehicles? It's a scale and chicken/egg (or two sides market) problem. Gas stations won't convert until there is a decent number of hydrogen cars on the road (in the area the station is in), and people won't buy hydrogen vehicles if there are no stations to refill at. Manufacturers won't be able to scale produc…

Both BMW and Toyota have hydrogen cars. We are talking about the infrastructure of EVs not EVs them selfs. The price is dropping on EVs, but that won't matter if most people can't charge them. Which is the problem. Vandalism is becoming more and more of a problem with EV charging stations. People are stealing the Copper wires. That will be a major issue at apartment complexes if they install charging stations. The US…

> BMW and Toyota have hydrogen cars.

How many have shipped? How many gas stations are pumping hydrogen?

> most people can't charge them

And yet there are millions of them on the road, with numbers always increasing.

The strength of EVs, and why they will win over hydrogen is that they can be adopted regardless of what the majority are doing, incremental instead of big bang. There is a sizable market of people who can charge EVs. This number is only going to grow as more and more apartments/carpark are being fitted with chargers (which people have already said are not a necessity). It's not a small task, but it can be done gradually, unlike hydrogen. Unless you get some massive coordinated effort between multiple car companies and gas stations to roll out hydrogen refil stations across an entire country in preparation for hoped for sales, people just won't buy them. EV naysayers love to talk about range anxiety for EVs. Imagine the range anxiety if you had a hydrogen vehicle today.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#89

Post by voisin »

socialismisok wrote: post #4

"I'd have to bring my electrical systems up to code and that's expensive for my 80 year old house" Well, yeah. I suppose it would be. I'm a bit surprised this is a surprise to the landlord. Also, many of the costs here are looming anyways. It's a matter of when, not if, the electrical needs updating to meet code.

> I'm a bit surprised this is a surprise to the landlord. Also, many of the costs here are looming anyways. It's a matter of when, not if, the electrical needs updating to meet code.

I see this all the time. “Investors” buy real estate by assuming repairs and maintenance to be minimal and then pocketing every dime of excess cash created by the property. Then, over time when the windows need to be replaced or the roof or the electrical system upgraded or the HVAC improved, they don’t have any budget for it because they’ve become used to living off all of the income (despite the fact that over their 10-20 years of ownership they’ve seen rents increase dramatically). So what do they do? They list it for sale at high current market rents as if all of this deferred maintenance / Capex has been completed. This puts buyers in a position of paying a massive purchase price and having massive costs to renovate / upgrade.

I hate landlords like this. Fortunately you can spot them a mile away. If the paint is peeling, then the electrical isn’t to code.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#90

Post by Robotbeat »

trinovantes wrote: post #68
Robotbeat wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charging at scale is just way easier & cheaper than deploying hydrogen infrastructure, and I don’t think people realize just how big of a difference there is. It takes approximately 4 times the electricity (when you include liquefaction, inefficiency of electrolysis, etc) to drive the same distance with hydrogen cars as with electric cars. And Hydrogen cars get about the same range on a tank as electric cars, but eve…

Maybe not viable for personal vehicles but I can see hydrogen fuel used for trucks/ships. Electric batteries are probably too heavy and take too long to recharge for long haul.

Batteries are fine for semi trucks, too, actually. Even 500 miles with full payload. Transoceanic ships are a major challenge for batteries, but the scale is large enough that maybe you could use liquid hydrogen. Or just synth fuels like methane.
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