Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

aljazeera.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 195 posts

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#81

Post by tunap »

magic_hamster wrote: post #26
mschuster91 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GPS might be helpful for drones (though it should be on the drone, not your phone) Actually, for the new EU regulations, you need to broadcast both the position of the drone and of the operator, at least for everything above class C1 ("remote ID", see [1]). And in any case, drones without working GPS are not fun to fly. DJI's Mini 3 Pro (and its larger friends) can do by using the collision-avoidance stereo cameras…

While this is interesting (broadcast to whom exactly?) my main point is that DJI demands access to your smartphone location even for products that clearly have no use for this information, while giving you a sideloaded app which is banned from the official store. To me, these point to a trust issue.

While I initially balked at buying such spywares, I did break down and buy a Mini 2 last year(it's awesome!!!). I side-loaded the app on an old phone, sans SIM, with a pristine LOS install. Connected it to wifi to register & immediately put the phone in Airplane Mode.

Been meaning to research how to independently flash the drone's firmware offline to wipe collected data, but haven't delved into that yet. Any suggestions welcomed!

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#82

Post by JKCalhoun »

firecall wrote: post #39
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #21

The Ukrainian-Russo war has shown the military the power of offensive drones. You think they are going to allow civilians to own such powerful potential weapons in the future? I think offensive drone warfare is just scratching the surface. I can think of a few modifications to drones, I've yet to see in Ukraine, that could increase their lethality 10x.

Assault Rifles seem to be ok for the US government to place into the hands of US civilians.

Agree. But I think the idea of flying a bomb into someone's car (the first thing that came to mind when I thought about it for a few seconds) is, to the powerful, a whole 'nother level of terror.

Not to be so cynical/dark, but I'm surprised to have not yet heard of a targeted assassination done by an amateur with an off-the-shelf drone. I have to admit the idea is frightening.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#83

Post by notatoad »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #66
magic_hamster wrote: post #3

They are absolutely right to do this, and private users should be wary as well. DJI's application (Mimo) has been banned from the Android Play Store for some time, with no explanation given by DJI. They offer an APK to side load, which is completely unsupervised, and requires access to your phone's accurate location and other invasive permissions no matter which of their products you are using. This is an important d…

On Android, anything that can broadcast a signal (bluetooth/wifi) require location, at least coarse. I'm not saying DJI isn't spying on everything but that's probably the reason. This is hilarious in hindsight because for years, you had to give an app call access so they could monitor if a call was incoming (for pausing a game for example) Edit: It also looks to be a GDPR ban.

>anything that can broadcast a signal (bluetooth/wifi)

it's the opposite - anything that can read a signal that has been broadcast by another deivce requires location permission. which makes sense, because if you can poll for nearby wifi networks or bluetooth beacons you can determine location, even without using the GPS hardware.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#84

Post by maxwell »

firecall wrote: post #39
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #21

The Ukrainian-Russo war has shown the military the power of offensive drones. You think they are going to allow civilians to own such powerful potential weapons in the future? I think offensive drone warfare is just scratching the surface. I can think of a few modifications to drones, I've yet to see in Ukraine, that could increase their lethality 10x.

Assault Rifles seem to be ok for the US government to place into the hands of US civilians.

You have it backwards: the U.S. government is explicitly prohibited constitutionally from infringing the human right to bear arms.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#85

Post by mschuster91 »

Ancapistani wrote: post #76
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Now if there were any replacement for DJI I'd be happy... their tech stack is weird AF (e.g. you can only view synchronized flightbooks on your DJI RC controller or on the phone if you're using the sticks-only controller but not on the website or the macOS/Windows companion app, the damn expensive DJI RC controller doesn't do HDMI/DP output, the controllers can't be re-used between drone generations, DJI Fly is only…

Autel is “on par” - better in some areas and lacking in others. They’re a Chinese company, though some of their higher-end stuff is assembled in the US. They don’t “phone home” like DJI and don’t restrict flight based on geolocation in the US.

> They don’t “phone home” like DJI and don’t restrict flight based on geolocation in the US.

The latter is actually a requirement in the EU starting Q1/23, simply because there have been way too many people without any clue about drone regulations causing danger to general and emergency aviation. It's a good idea when manufacturers step up to prevent their products from causing harm to others.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#86

Post by photochemsyn »

sofixa wrote: post #73
photochemsyn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're certainly an optimal delivery device for biological and chemical weapons, and I imagine it's only a matter of time before such programs are revived by various powers, given the current breakdown in international treaty regimes governing what I'd call the four horsepeople of the apocalypse: nuclear, chemical, biological and cyber warfare.

How are they more optimal than the "traditional" (for the last few decades) method, a missile? Missiles have the advantages of bigger range, faster, different profiles (hypersonic cruise, ICBM). A drone might be harder to detect today, maybe, because anti-air systems didn't need to deal with them (while they did have to deal with missiles, so are optimised for that use case), but that's about it?

Availability is much higher, so that opens the door to use by non-state actors. Stealth is probably also higher. I suppose the combination, i.e. missiles delivering cluster-type munitions (releasing hundreds of drones instead of hundreds of bomblets) is what state-level militaries would pursue.

Little-known fact: cluster munitions (essentially, hot-water-heater-size cylinders packed with hundreds of small devices) were originally developed for the dispersal of chemical and biological warfare munitions over wide areas.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#87

Post by stefan_ »

z9znz wrote: post #14

Do other countries put US hardware and software companies on blacklists for their involvement with DoD? If so, then I think quite a few major US tech companies would be unable to do business outside the US and Europe.

China has just about banned any foreign software services?

They can't ban the hardware, of course. While in the US finding a Chinese part in military hardware is a reason to stop the line, they rely extensively on US parts.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#88

Post by 1-6 »

Disappointed that grassroots drone companies such as 3DR died as a result of aggressive Chinese companies such as DJI pushing good quality drones for less. Now the US market has lesser alternatives and we’re having to go back to hobby kits to build anything similar to a DJI.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#89

Post by xani_ »

magic_hamster wrote: post #3

They are absolutely right to do this, and private users should be wary as well. DJI's application (Mimo) has been banned from the Android Play Store for some time, with no explanation given by DJI. They offer an APK to side load, which is completely unsupervised, and requires access to your phone's accurate location and other invasive permissions no matter which of their products you are using. This is an important d…

>This is an important detail. Your phone location might be helpful when using drones (though GPS should be on the drone, not your phone)

I'd imagine it would be important for "come back home" like functionality in case drone loses signal or whatever

> but there is absolutely no reason to use it for something like a phone stabilizer, which it absolutely requires and will not let you continue unless you turn it on

App making photos or movies using GPS to tag location of the photo is kinda common. Refusing to work without it would be sketchy tho, but "developer is kinda incompetent" is common enough...

Not saying it isn't malicious but those are easier explanations.

Hell, it could require permissions and not send the data now, just add that tracking in update...

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#90

Post by xani_ »

notatoad wrote: post #83
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Android, anything that can broadcast a signal (bluetooth/wifi) require location, at least coarse. I'm not saying DJI isn't spying on everything but that's probably the reason. This is hilarious in hindsight because for years, you had to give an app call access so they could monitor if a call was incoming (for pausing a game for example) Edit: It also looks to be a GDPR ban.

>anything that can broadcast a signal (bluetooth/wifi) it's the opposite - anything that can read a signal that has been broadcast by another deivce requires location permission. which makes sense, because if you can poll for nearby wifi networks or bluetooth beacons you can determine location, even without using the GPS hardware.

Yeah, makes sense from "not confusing users" perspective.

"This app only needs wifi network list, it isn't spying on me" would be easy mistake to make

Post reply on HN