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The single market is looking wobbly

economist.com

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Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#81

Post by yrgulation »

mmarq wrote: post #78
yrgulation wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. Thats like saying california is poor because san francisco has homeless people. Just because people dont drive fancy cars or homes arent refurbished in a region where it rarely rains it doesnt mean they are poor. Even east eu is rich compared to most of the world. I agree with you on slow growth but eu countries are anything but poor. Mismanaged yes. Poor not so much.

Actually I’d be very surprised if houses in Spain where worse than houses in Britain, whose lack of housing quality rivals with some central African countries.

I wouldnt insult central african countries by comparing their housing quality to the appalling housing quality in britain.

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#82

Post by yrgulation »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #73
yrgulation wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been to germany and belgium recently and frankly wasnt impressed. German roads are constantly under maintenance - cant they just build them right or why are they constantly being fixed? Belgian motorways had potholes in them and were poorly marked. Also most germans dont own the properties they live in and their savings would last enough for maybe a month. Anyway the idea is that there are issues everywhere in e…

German roads are under so much maintenance to prevent the potholes you see In Belgium ;). Can't have your cake and eat it. When I used to drive from Holland to Belgium it was very clear when we'd enter the country. No signs needed, when the road gets super noisy and bumpy you know you're in Belgium. And remember that many German motorways still have no speed limit. Hitting a pothole at 250kph is not fun and as such t…

France and the netherlands have good roads and yet they dont constantly have to maintain them.

If germany would build them right and with quality in mind the first time they wouldnt break so often.

Not sure where you can reach 250kph if most of the autobahn is under repairs.

But speaking of driving in germany i found the constant tailgating and the general aggressiveness and flashing similar to east europe 10 years ago. Horrible driving culture.

But yes we can all agree belgian roads are in a league of their own. Suppose that makes belgium poor?

I am new to this game but from what i gather is that any country that has a visible issue is poor.

Maybe germany is poor because it cant afford gas? A german minister was complaining that american lng is too expensive for germany. Also renting and the government stepping in to keep rents at a low price sounds like poverty and socialism to me. Not a good sign.

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#83

Post by yrgulation »

ricardobayes wrote: post #76
yrgulation wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know why it surprises you that Czechia is more developed than Spain. Romania for instance has overtaken Greece and will overtake Portugal in the near future. Hungary is also doing rather well let alone Poland. Without wars those countries are returning to their natural state. But that still doesnt mean Spain is poor. It just means other countries progressed. And many times its the progress and growth that matt…

Hungary is doing so well it's about to progress into the middle ages. Not just economically, as it's closing many pools, restaurants and hotels from Nov 1st, but a few months ago actually brought back a feudal title to address high-ranking government officials.

Idk i drove around hungary the other week and they still had lights on and roads with cars. If you believe what the media says they would be shooting arrows at people and cannibalising each other by now. I dont agree with their policies or their government but i dont think hungary is doing that bad. For now.

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#84

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

juusto wrote: post #14

If I had one euro for every time The Economist has said that the Euro/EU were wobbly/breaking/etc I could balance Liz Truss'es budget and have money left for some fish'n'chips.

The EU is the new Apple.

"The European Union, on the verge of breaking up since 1993"

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#85

Post by tkk23 »

yrgulation wrote: post #58
tkk23 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the USA then the profits are made at the periphery. Profits can be made anywhere. Sooner or later, they will be made where living is more pleasant and that's at the European periphery. Which cultural problems exists that keeps the periphery poor? I would like to argue that the cultures of the periphery are what will attract people and customers and what will allow the periphery to develop.

Germany is making a killing in selling their cars and tools to the “periphery”. East europe being their largest export market - some 30%. The main cultural issues that keep the periphery poor are those stemming from the “core”. Always shitting on the south and east is what keeps those regions stagnating. What upsets me is that they turn the other cheek instead of slapping right back.

Do you have an example for the 'shitting'?

I don't understand how the shitting, and slapping right back is economically relevant. How is it preventing a country or a region from picking a market and becoming a global leader and thus earning high margins? E.g. people have been dissing China's product quality for ages and yet that hasn't prevented China from improving.

As a side note, it shouldn't be an economic disadvantage that Germany exports 30% to the European periphery. Cars are a competitive market with French, Korean, Japanese and American offers. The periphery should be able to make back much more if they specialize in products of a high-margin market. E.g. if I were a politician, I would go all-in on medical research and try to develop some world-leading equipment or cures.

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#86

Post by [deleted] »

tkk23 wrote: post #85
yrgulation wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is making a killing in selling their cars and tools to the “periphery”. East europe being their largest export market - some 30%. The main cultural issues that keep the periphery poor are those stemming from the “core”. Always shitting on the south and east is what keeps those regions stagnating. What upsets me is that they turn the other cheek instead of slapping right back.

Do you have an example for the 'shitting'? I don't understand how the shitting, and slapping right back is economically relevant. How is it preventing a country or a region from picking a market and becoming a global leader and thus earning high margins? E.g. people have been dissing China's product quality for ages and yet that hasn't prevented China from improving. As a side note, it shouldn't be an economic disadv…

[deleted]

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#87

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #73
yrgulation wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been to germany and belgium recently and frankly wasnt impressed. German roads are constantly under maintenance - cant they just build them right or why are they constantly being fixed? Belgian motorways had potholes in them and were poorly marked. Also most germans dont own the properties they live in and their savings would last enough for maybe a month. Anyway the idea is that there are issues everywhere in e…

German roads are under so much maintenance to prevent the potholes you see In Belgium ;). Can't have your cake and eat it. When I used to drive from Holland to Belgium it was very clear when we'd enter the country. No signs needed, when the road gets super noisy and bumpy you know you're in Belgium. And remember that many German motorways still have no speed limit. Hitting a pothole at 250kph is not fun and as such t…

When I used to be driven from Arnhem to Oberhausen (ca. 199x) it's been very obvious when you've crossed the border to .de, not even because of the checkpoints, which still existed then, but because of the noises the car made when it went over the gaps between the concrete plates which probably were the same as in 194x, or so, when they Autobahn has been built.

Very annoying when stoned!

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#88

Post by _abox »

yrgulation wrote: post #82
GekkePrutser wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German roads are under so much maintenance to prevent the potholes you see In Belgium ;). Can't have your cake and eat it. When I used to drive from Holland to Belgium it was very clear when we'd enter the country. No signs needed, when the road gets super noisy and bumpy you know you're in Belgium. And remember that many German motorways still have no speed limit. Hitting a pothole at 250kph is not fun and as such t…

France and the netherlands have good roads and yet they dont constantly have to maintain them. If germany would build them right and with quality in mind the first time they wouldnt break so often. Not sure where you can reach 250kph if most of the autobahn is under repairs. But speaking of driving in germany i found the constant tailgating and the general aggressiveness and flashing similar to east europe 10 years a…

> France and the netherlands have good roads and yet they dont constantly have to maintain them.

Yes they do. In the Netherlands there's a lot of maintenance going on. Once on a trip to my workplace at the time (75km away) I counted 12 individual speed restrictions due to roadwork. I constantly had to switch between 120, 100 and 70kph. Most of it happens during the night though. I guess Germany doesn't always do this.

> Also renting and the government stepping in to keep rents at a low price sounds like poverty and socialism to me. Not a good sign.

I personally like socialism and many in Europe do. The richest countries have the best welfare systems in general (like Scandinavia). Holland itself is an unfortunate exception with its Anglo-Saxon liberal model.

It's becoming more important as the housing market is out of control and buying a house is near impossible now on a modal salary. Regulation keeps pricing fair to those who need it. It's not a sign of poverty but of the systemic choices we make.

> But speaking of driving in germany i found the constant tailgating and the general aggressiveness and flashing similar to east europe 10 years ago. Horrible driving culture.

This is something we do agree on :) I try to avoid driving in Germany.

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#90

Post by zapperdulchen »

14u2c wrote: post #33
zublet wrote: post #11

Another round of blaming Germany! I guess after the Nord Stream sabotage they need another issue. The whole of Europe took gas from Russia, but Nord Stream was the incarnation of evil. The press was full of Nord Stream articles and never mentioned the other pipelines. Poland took gas well into May 2022, and only stopped after Russia demanded payment in rubles. The Yamal pipeline is still standing. Europe still gets R…

> Poland took gas well into May 2022, and only stopped after Russia demanded payment in rubles. True, but Germany did the opposite and started buying the gas with rubles. It's no surprise that this caused some animosity.

I think that's misinformation. Do you have a credible source for this? Here is mine: Gas only for rubles: is Germany also threatened with a delivery stop? [https://www-br-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/deutschland-wel...]
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