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Neovim 0.8 Released

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Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#81

Post by modernerd »

stoplying1 wrote: post #55
modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

Helix is just very, very excellent. I've spent less than 5 minutes total configuring it and I really have virtually not a single complaint and there's WIP for the niceties that aren't present yet (sidebar/treeview, etc). I installed it, had some LSPs already on path. I configured it to show LSP messages and that was about it. It's very cool how gosh darn productive I can be, in such a short time due to the command pa…

I'm looking forward to a treeview too!

https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/pull/2377

And subsequent icon support:

https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/pull/2869

> I find it a bit weird to include VsCode and Helix here together.

I work with people who declared config bankruptcy, switched from Emacs/Neovim to VS Code, and are perfectly happy and (maybe even more?) productive as a result.

VSC is not in the same category as vim but it seems to appeal because it's a halfway house between vim/Helix and a heavier IDE. John Carmack even said something similar about VSC in his Lex Fridman interview:

01:11:31.060 And I am super happy that that seems to be winning

01:11:33.540 over even a lot of the old Vim and Emacs people

01:11:36.140 that they're kind of like,

01:11:37.140 hey, visual studio code's maybe not so bad.

01:11:40.060 I am, that may be the final peacekeeping solution

01:11:43.260 where everybody is reasonably happy

01:11:45.620 with something like that.

https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0309-large.html

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#82

Post by imbnwa »

Must every neovim release thread be brigaded by naysayers asking the same question for the 1000000th time? If you don't like its value proposition, don't use it. Simple. Keep using your IDE or whatever solution you prefer. This is almost exclusively happens in (neo)vim threads, and its so utterly distracting. That there is an entire community camped around neovim should answer your question about why anyone choses it over {insert non-vim solution}

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#83

Post by xwdv »

sja wrote: post #72
xwdv wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terminal is superior. You are just not skilled enough or advanced enough in thought to imagine what an interface can truly be.

Is this a sarcastic remark? If not, this seems like an extremely reductive stance. Surely one could imagine another skilled person preferring a GUI over the terminal, even if it's not an opinion they share :)

There is no sarcasm here. Zero.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#84

Post by jerpint »

modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

I really like working inside a terminal, and I like being able to navigate seemlessly between code tabs and terminal tabs as though they are one. I can do this easily in vim+tmux, I can't do this easily in IDEs where the mouse is considered first-class. I do miss certain features of IDEs, but being able to toggle between shells, tabs and code is my killer feature.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#85

Post by modernerd »

Blackthorn wrote: post #67
modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

The reason I still use emacs over helix or zed: elisp. Not because I particularly like the language. But because I like that I can write something in a language that executes and accesses pretty much anything the editor can do. Does helix or zed have the ability to do that? I didn't see it on their landing pages. What are the extensibility stories for these editors?

Zed and Helix are both pretty new.

There's demand for plugin frameworks/scriptability in both but neither of them support it yet. I fully understand why people who need to script their editor are sticking with [neo]vim/Emacs — there are very few other options at the moment.

https://github.com/zed-industries/feedback/issues/388

https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/discussions/3806

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#86

Post by Beltalowda »

cool_hw wrote: post #6
dyingkneepad wrote: post #4

Neovim is one of those things that seem maybe cool, but I just can't find a reason to switch. Vim works just fine for me, I don't know what I would be getting by switching, and I'd probably waste some time porting my config and workflow to whatever the differences are (I'm a heavy user of :terminal).

Treesitter integration is a bit easier in neovim IMHO (but I haven't tried to make it work with vim too much.) Newer plugin development seems to be much more on the nvim side than vim as well. (Although I do feel fzf is superior to telescope, at least out of the box.) I'm happy neovim exists, it rekindled vim development. Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the bus factor 1 on vim?

> Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the bus factor 1 on vim?

There's a bunch of people who are "members" of the vim organisation on GitHub. I don't know if they have full admin privileges or just commit/issue access. I never really understood why this has to be a problem in the first place: can always clone the repo and continue working on it if Bram disappears.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#87

Post by BaculumMeumEst »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #68
BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #23

I really wish neovim could ship usable default colorscheme and round out its lsp support with autocompletion. Treesitter isn’t for me; it’s slower to open files and I have no idea how people make sense of so many different color groups. Still sticking with vanilla vim and CoC for the time being, they’re rock solid.

> usable default colorscheme What's wrong with the default colorscheme?

https://ibb.co/TR9sWj8

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#88

Post by pacetherace »

I feel the proliferation of plugins has made the whole vim/neovim echo system too complicated and overwhelming to adapt for a new user. 1. Vim itself has a learning curve 2. There are many great plugins, but if they don't work for you, then unless you are an advanced user, it is impossible to get everything working without wasting a day 3. I find it weird that to get a vim plugin to work, I might have to install llvm and do a compilation and prey that all the dependencies have been satisfied

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#89

Post by tomjakubowski »

Blackthorn wrote: post #67
modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

The reason I still use emacs over helix or zed: elisp. Not because I particularly like the language. But because I like that I can write something in a language that executes and accesses pretty much anything the editor can do. Does helix or zed have the ability to do that? I didn't see it on their landing pages. What are the extensibility stories for these editors?

Don't know about hex/zed but Lua in neovim is just about as pleasant to use as Elisp is with Emacs. It's not quite the same thing since neovim's still largely written in C, where Emacs is largely written in Elisp. But most of the editor's features (including text manipulation) are exposed to Lua.

Lua is a nice language too, just lacking the stuff that makes the Lisp nerd in me happy.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#90

Post by massysett »

modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

I was not familiar with Helix or Zed, so I took a look at the links.

Both webpages prominently state that the editors are written in Rust. This reduces my interest in both projects.

As a user, I do not care what language my editor is implemented in. Maybe I want a fast editor, or maybe I want a feature-rich editor. The closest I would come to caring about this is if I want an extensible editor - can I extend these editors using Rust?

Lacking any explanation as to why I should care that the editor is written in Rust, the conclusion I draw is that the creators of the editor were interested in an exercise in writing an editor in Rust - which I'm sure is a wonderful learning experience for the creators, but I don't see why that would make me interested in using the editor.

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