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Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

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Re: Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

#81
post #54
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not gonna replace people who make phone calls all day without something more or less indistinguishable from strong AI. Nobody wants robo-calls.

You don't need chatbot tech to be indistinguishable from strong AI, just indistinguishable from an average salesperson. Like babyshake, I firmly believe that this will happen one day. 10 years? 50 years?

I suggest you actually try and sell a product once before making this kind of prediction.

Re: Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been involved with companies with government security clearances and organizations simply worried about intellectual property theft. As a rule, the most serious of those organizations do not allow subcontractors free rein of the building, which janitors need. (Edit: Yes, I am aware of some high profile failures.)

I think you can get subcontractors that specifically provide cleared janitors. (The same way that for example the NSA famously uses cleared contractors for things like IT.) But anyway, Docusign surely isn't an example of such a company or agency.

Yes, NSA’s high profile failure with Booz Allen is a great example of why some things should not be outsourced.

Re: Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

#83
post #72
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need chatbot tech to be indistinguishable from strong AI, just indistinguishable from an average salesperson. Like babyshake, I firmly believe that this will happen one day. 10 years? 50 years?

FYI for you and other readers, sales is actually hard. Low barrier to entry followed by brutal survival of the fittest. Don't meet your quota? Fuck you, you're fired. People who survive for decades of that aren't trivially replaced.

Or as was put to me once, sales managers have no problem firing people. And that includes people who just had the bad luck to have their supporter at some company leave and be replaced by someone who favors a competitor. Or a project just gets put on hold because of budgets. I suspect many developers wouldn't appreciate being evaluated every quarter in no small part on factors that they have at best limited influence over.

Re: Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been involved with companies with government security clearances and organizations simply worried about intellectual property theft. As a rule, the most serious of those organizations do not allow subcontractors free rein of the building, which janitors need. (Edit: Yes, I am aware of some high profile failures.)

I think you can get subcontractors that specifically provide cleared janitors. (The same way that for example the NSA famously uses cleared contractors for things like IT.) But anyway, Docusign surely isn't an example of such a company or agency.

Docusign is certainly managing many proprietary documents.

I agree that it is likely that they outsource like other organizations. I still don’t think it is a good idea.

Re: Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 67% were in sales, marketing and customer success, 20% in engineering, product development and customer operations and 13% in general and administrative Ratios like this are fairly common. I think the confusion comes from engineers who look at a SaaS and assume it's mostly engineers like themselves. Engineering is a small portion of the headcount. A lot of customer-related needs scale with the number of customers.…

I think the confusion comes from... For some, the confusion comes from "wow, that's about half the headcount that Microsoft had when I started in the mid-90s, and MSFT was building, selling, and supporting Windows, Visual Studio, Office,..." Perhaps DocuSign's products are, in fact, about half of Microsoft's big three products, but of what I know of DocuSign it's still a big number to me.

Population growth since 1995: 30%

Computer/Online service usage growth: a lot more!

Re: Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can get subcontractors that specifically provide cleared janitors. (The same way that for example the NSA famously uses cleared contractors for things like IT.) But anyway, Docusign surely isn't an example of such a company or agency.

Yes, NSA’s high profile failure with Booz Allen is a great example of why some things should not be outsourced.

Is it? It's not like the various intelligence agencies haven't had their share of on-the-payroll moles.

Re: Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

#87
post #67
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet there's some market analysis of SaaS companies showing how differently they can be run. I wonder if it's bimodal - SaaS with 50% sales headcount.

I can't imagine a highly successful SaaS company being able to maintain a <10% headcount

B2B vs low-price B2C.

How many sales/support reps does your $5/month pay for?

Re: Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

#88
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been impressed by Docusign the few times I've had to use it. And I generally hate 95% of the software I come across. Everything seemed to snap into place, was perfectly intuitive. That stuff is easy to get wrong, as evidenced by all the crap out there.

It's not managed to annoy me, which is quite impressive. I never really considered Docusign anything special for usability, until your comment, but that's because it gets out of your road enough not to notice it.

And it may be worth noting that the alternative is often to go physically into an office someplace or get various notorizations or Medallion Signatures through your bank.

Re: Ask HN: Seriously, steelman this please. 7,400 employees at Docusign?

#89

I feel the same way about most big corporations. Tech companies are not immune. I had a FB recruiter once brag to me about their Messenger team occupying a couple floors in Seattle and a couple floors in Menlo Park. Holy hell, what do you do on a project like Messenger with that many devs??

Countries, languages, fonts, internet speeds, 10 different platforms, abuse, scaling, infrastructure, testing, etc.
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