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Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

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Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#81

Post by mschuster91 »

horsestaple wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

> We also know that the vast majority of people who work in the "industry" are either coerced by others or forced into it by life circumstances.

Well, the latter part is valid for almost every "bottom of the ladder" style precarious job. Be it agriculture, meatpacking, construction, flipping burgers, hauling trash, handing out Amazon parcels or sex work - all of these don't require much education or training, they're fairly risky (in terms of danger of accidents or other harm) and there's an abundance of potential workers which means the wages are very low.

> Internet porn makes this even worse, since even if they decide to stop, their material will stay online forever.

The irony is, there are so many people shaming anything sexual from erotic art over r/gonewild nudes to full-service sex work, but almost everyone of the shamers is jacking off to porn regularly.

In a decent society without religious bullcrap, there would be no stigma attached and that's it - and we're thankfully heading that way, given that "having an onlyfans" is basically the norm for young women these days employers simply can't afford to shame women for enjoying sex as they won't find staff otherwise.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#82

Post by dymk »

hackeraccount wrote: post #56

There's a libertarian ethos that says anything between two consenting adults is the their business. I'm more and more skeptical not just of that principle but the self awareness of the people who purport to support it. I know that the choices I think are correct may not be - either for myself, for everyone or for any particular person. For that reason I don't think that anyone should run my life or that I should be t…

Your first and third paragraph are what lawmakers in e.g. Texas use to ban things like anal sex.

Your second paragraph contradicts first and third.

I have no idea what the fourth paragraph is trying to say.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#83

Post by pessimizer »

horsestaple wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

> I would argue that renting out your body in the most intimate way is very different from most jobs.

When would you do this? I do not see this argument.

> We also know that the vast majority of people who work in the "industry" are either coerced by others or forced into it by life circumstances.

We also know this about 95% of employed people, and 100% of those who don't have savings adequate for retirement or sponsors. You don't work, you don't eat.

> Internet porn makes this even worse, since even if they decide to stop, their material will stay online forever.

It would be irrelevant if the material were online forever if large minorities didn't feel it was their duty to punish people indefinitely for ever having done this job.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#84

Post by mvdwoord »

fareesh wrote: post #6

Eric Weinstein sat down with Ashley Mathews (Riley Reid) and discussed this a few years ago on his Portal podcast. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/21-ashley-mathews-aka-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHNBCVGH34c&themeRefresh=1

Interesting (perhaps), tangentially related, column by Cherie DeVille on the influence of payment processors on the porn industry.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-porns-silliest-new-tren...

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#86

Post by jliptzin »

horsestaple wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

I know more than a few people who engaged in sex work simply because they’d rather do that for 1 hour rather than make the same money working an entire week at Starbucks, for example. You would be shocked at the kinds of people doing it. Nobody was coerced. If you’re worried about coercion, providing legal protection to sex workers will help eliminate stigma and drive underground operators out of business.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#87

Post by NoraCodes »

Stupulous wrote: post #79
NoraCodes wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We also know that the vast majority of people who work in the "industry" are either coerced by others or forced into it by life circumstances. Most people are forced into work by life circumstances. That's how society operates: work or starve. Sex trafficking is a genuine issue, but it's not at all the majority of the industry. I don't see what makes consensual sex work uniquely coercive or evil when compared to ot…

I would think the moral calculus is different when the non-consensual activity is sex vs. eg. cutting timber or cooking fast food. A single rape is a lot more traumatizing then a decade of physical labor. I don't know anything about how common involuntary sex work is, so I won't argue a broader point; I just think the equivalency doesn't hold up.

Okay, but banning or further criminalizing sex work is not going to reduce human trafficking, but increase it, for the same reason that banning drugs doesn't reduce illegal drug sales. The demand is pretty inelastic. HRW has a decent primer on the topic here: https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/07/why-sex-work-should-be-d...

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#88

Post by Sakos »

rayiner wrote: post #70
hackeraccount wrote: post #56

There's a libertarian ethos that says anything between two consenting adults is the their business. I'm more and more skeptical not just of that principle but the self awareness of the people who purport to support it. I know that the choices I think are correct may not be - either for myself, for everyone or for any particular person. For that reason I don't think that anyone should run my life or that I should be t…

> I'm beginning to wonder though if there isn't some space short of stopping a person from doing something That’s why moral norms exist in every human society. Most people need some sort of support from society to make good decisions for themselves and their families. It’s no different than how an exercise or diet regimen is easier to stick to if you do it along with other people to provide support and yes shaming if…

Society? You're painting an awfully broad brush. I absolutely think it should be regulated because of the reasons you name, but it's mainly particular demographics that want sex work banned, and generally these demographics don't actually care about the well-being of sex workers (re: provably negative consequences for sex workers in previous situations where such work was made illegal or otherwise deregulated and punished).

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#89

Post by zajio1am »

NoraCodes wrote: post #47
horsestaple wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

> We also know that the vast majority of people who work in the "industry" are either coerced by others or forced into it by life circumstances. Most people are forced into work by life circumstances. That's how society operates: work or starve. Sex trafficking is a genuine issue, but it's not at all the majority of the industry. I don't see what makes consensual sex work uniquely coercive or evil when compared to ot…

> That's how society operates: work or starve

It is more like how biology operates.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#90

Post by mschuster91 »

roenxi wrote: post #3

Crypto is an option here. Seems like a pretty good fit for what the sex workers need.

Crypto is even worse, for both customers and sex workers. A wad of cash is virtually untrackable and can be protected, crypto asset flows are by definition completely public, and the government already has the tools (both legal frameworks and the technology) to associate crypto accounts with identities.
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