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Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

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Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#81

Post by origin_path »

distances wrote: post #72
badpun wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also the amount of LPG redirected from India and Pakistan to Europe will have a huge effect on those countries. India's buying the excess gas from Russia though, so they have access to a seller that Europe won't touch.

There are currently no European sanctions against Russian gas. Nobody is very happy about it, but Europe would still buy that gas if the pipelines were open.

Multiple gas pipelines from Russia are closed because European governments refuse to allow them to run. That's gas sanctions, why do you argue otherwise? For example Germany refuses to open Nord Stream 2, and Nord Stream 1 is broken due to sanctions on equipment repair - the turbines are made by Siemens and several are sitting in UK factories unable to be re-exported back due to sanctions.

Although the troubles with Nord Stream 1 are well known, the termination of the other pipelines is less well understood. Poland for example closed the Jamal pipeline due to the war in Ukraine:

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/poland-terminates-yamal-gas-...

We also have to remember that Europe seized Russian euros and broke contracts in other ways, so at this point even if the pipelines were re-opened and the equipment properly repaired, it's not really obvious if Russia would even want to go back to selling to Europe. Unreliable partner after all compared to China, India and elsewhere. Europe is buying their gas anyway due to arbitrage so it looks like a winner for Russia unfortunately.

Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#82

Post by lultimouomo »

fxtentacle wrote: post #12

Most likely, Italy and eastern Europe, who are net importers. Germany is a net exporter, so they would only have blackouts out of solidarity.

Blackouts wouldn't happen when wind and solar are plenty, which is when Germany is exporting. They would happen on windless rainy day, during which Germany is importing electricity.

Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#83

Post by kken »

origin_path wrote: post #81
distances wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are currently no European sanctions against Russian gas. Nobody is very happy about it, but Europe would still buy that gas if the pipelines were open.

Multiple gas pipelines from Russia are closed because European governments refuse to allow them to run. That's gas sanctions, why do you argue otherwise? For example Germany refuses to open Nord Stream 2, and Nord Stream 1 is broken due to sanctions on equipment repair - the turbines are made by Siemens and several are sitting in UK factories unable to be re-exported back due to sanctions. Although the troubles with…

>Nord Stream 1 is broken due to sanctions on equipment repair

It's well known that this is not true. You are perpetuating russian propaganda.

Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#84

Post by baybal2 »

xiphias2 wrote: post #30
sschueller wrote: post #8

Here is what Switzerland is doing at the moment to prevent the worst case which would be rolling black outs. They are planning for the worst case so they don't get caught with their pants down. This includes: - Currently trying to fill as many reservoirs as possible - Securing gas in foreign reservoirs. - Plan for emergency gas plants that can be operational by January/February, the time Switzerland has the least ele…

Here's what rich countries are doing in general: outbidding pour countries for the limited amount of resources available in the short term. I lived in Switzerland and of course they are doing great, but Swiss people won't be the ones freezing to death in winter. Also the amount of LPG redirected from India and Pakistan to Europe will have a huge effect on those countries. In Hungary the country is trying to get back…

No post body was provided.

Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#85

Post by evandijk70 »

bitschubser_ wrote: post #40
bombcar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it is cost effective going forward to install two meters and panels on every house with one being “essential” and the other being “intermittent” so the power company has the option of blacking out the intermittent boxes only. I’d rather have all my computers, lights, etc shut down than my whole house.

isn't it much "easier" to implement some kind of progressive price on energy? first 1000kw/h are "cheaper" than market (per person in household), next 500kw/h double the price, next 500kw/h doubles again etc... For things like heatpumps you usually have an extra meter with special day/night tarifs (in germany), the rest is metered as general consumption. I always wonder through how much energy my peers burn, we have…

Something like that is currently proposed in the Netherlands, and will probably be implemented January 1st. Electricity and gas use up to the consumption of the average Dutch household (1100 m3 and 2200 kWh of the top of my head) will be cheaper than market.

Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#86

Post by baybal2 »

lostlogin wrote: post #79
kurupt213 wrote: post #11

It’s hard to be sympathetic when this situation was so obvious and preventable. This is what short term greed and irresponsible governance looks like.

A huge part of this was Putin. How would you prevent Putin?

No post body was provided.

Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#87

Post by nairboon »

thefz wrote: post #70
sschueller wrote: post #8

Here is what Switzerland is doing at the moment to prevent the worst case which would be rolling black outs. They are planning for the worst case so they don't get caught with their pants down. This includes: - Currently trying to fill as many reservoirs as possible - Securing gas in foreign reservoirs. - Plan for emergency gas plants that can be operational by January/February, the time Switzerland has the least ele…

To nitpick, Switzerland is not part of Europe.

It isn't? I didn't realized that we've moved...

Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#88

Post by mardifoufs »

qsdf38100 wrote: post #57
mardifoufs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do comments like these only pop up on articles that highlight problems in europe? I never see them in the hundreds of articles per month that focus on the US. It's weird because that is exactly the type of comment you used to read from fragile patriotic americans that were unable to handle any criticism back in the early 2000s, but this time from europeans.

Because social media is currently under MASSIVE attack from Russian trolls. And then there are people doing it for free, because their are easily manipulated or because they think they’d benefit from Russian puppets taking over their country… I wonder on which side you are.

What do you mean? Even if we ignore the "you are with us or with the terrorists" tone of your comment (that kind of prove my point) it still does not make sense. Where are the accusations of Russian bots/dinsfo on articles about American healthcare, or wealth inequality or gun violence in the US? Because those are also subjects that can be exploited by foreign powers in an effort to destabilize the US.

In fact, tons of europeans online love, love to highlight and amplify those exact issues, so I guess they are exploited by russian propaganda too? Or is it only europeans that get to use that as an excuse to deflect criticism and discussion about their internal issues?

Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#89

Post by mardifoufs »

lostlogin wrote: post #79
kurupt213 wrote: post #11

It’s hard to be sympathetic when this situation was so obvious and preventable. This is what short term greed and irresponsible governance looks like.

A huge part of this was Putin. How would you prevent Putin?

Not being hugely dependent on him would've been a good start. The war in ukraine didn't start in 2022. It started 8 years ago, which would've been plenty of time to move away from russian energy for any competent leadership/government.

Re: Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages

#90

Post by bombcar »

bitschubser_ wrote: post #45
bombcar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progressive pricing exists for commercial users but in general has been too complicated for home users.

just out of curiosity because I have no clue :D why is it regarded as complicated? For waste you already have a basic tarif + extra for every member in the household, and the "progression" is that you have to buy really expensive "waste bags" if you produce more waste

Use more pay more is pretty simple and implemented - and the lowest tiers are really cheap.

The complicated one is daily tiers - when power is more or less expensive at different times.

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