Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

erikmcclure.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 362 posts

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#81

Post by jsjohnst »

gh02t wrote: post #33
cabirum wrote: post #2

My motherboard says it has "reinforced" pcie slot :) But yea, I have to say peak power consumption has to be regulated so companies compete in efficiency, not raw power.

There sorta is a cap in place given that most residential circuits in the US are 15 or 20 amps. We're already not far off of that being a serious concern even on non-crazy builds. Edit: ok maybe crazy builds but still it's not that far fetched on current trajectories.

> We're already not far off of that being a serious concern even on non-crazy builds.

Show me an example of a “non-crazy” build that’s over 1,200W, let alone over 1,500W. I’m genuinely curious.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#82

Post by jrockway »

luminiferous wrote: post #72
jrockway wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have one of these for a much smaller card, mostly so that cold airflow from the floor intake fans actually has a path to get up to the RAM and VRMs. This is a workaround for a case that doesn't have front intake, which is preferable in my opinion. It does look a little cool, but I always worry a little about the reliability of the cable itself. Does it REALLY meet the signal integrity specifications for PCI-E? Prob…

LTT has a video where they tried to see how many PCIe riser cables they could string together before it stopped working.[1] They got to several meters. Maybe you could argue that it's worse inside a PC case since there's more EMI, but it seems like your PCIe riser cable would have to be very out of spec before you'd notice anything. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5xvwPa3r7M

Oh yeah, I've actually seen that video. I guess I have no reason to be even slightly paranoid!

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#83

Post by superchroma »

ikiris wrote: post #19
superchroma wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RE 2: We were shipping a system with a 980ti and it ripped the PCIE slot off the board despite being propped with foam.

... maybe don't ship a built system then? Those boxes get dropped

We didn't have a choice. We were building to a strong spec and sending a unit to trade shows.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#84

Post by Bluecobra »

chucklenorris wrote: post #77
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #36

How about we move to external only GPUs with huge connectors? If GPUs are half the size, power consumption and price of a PC now, they might as well be a separate device. As a bonus the rest of the motherboard & PCs actually get much smaller. A PC without any spinning disks could conceivably just be the size of a NUC by default, something you can travel with when you don't need the beefy GPU.

The problem with external gpus is that the pcie5x16 slot requires signal integrity chips every 5 inches or so [1]. Even for pcie4 it's bad, many people had blue screens or boot issues when using pcie3 only rated riser cables with a pcie4 video card, even though electrically they have the same connections. So, having a huge cable with x16 lanes of pcie5 on the back of the computer doesn't seem that feasible. Maybe fib…

Fiber optic would have higher latency vs. copper. Not sure how much of a difference that would make on a bus but I would assume the timing is pretty tight.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#85

Post by db48x »

Victerius wrote: post #50

With a power consumption of that magnitude, no wonder power grids are buckling everywhere. People's hunger for power is seemingly insatiable.

According to the Steam Hardware Survey (which you can view for yourself at https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...>), the RTX 3090 makes up less than 0.48% of all video cards in use by gamers. The 450W power figure is for the new RTX 4090, which will no doubt take a while to reach even that level.

It might be nice to have more information than that, but it honestly doesn’t seem like a huge problem. Your fridge probably costs you more over a year than even a 4090. See also air conditioning.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#86

Post by chx »

There used to be so called PIO motherboards from China. These were slightly larger than ITX and the PCIe connector was 90 degrees rotated so the video card was planar with the motherboard. https://imgur.com/a/ve1T0dE

And if we are to reform our computer chassis anyways, we could move the PSU to straddle the motherboard and the video card and even have the VRM inside. High amperage "comb" connectors exist and VRM daughtercard motherboards existed https://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-131-... Change the form factor so two 120mm fans fit, one in front, one in the back.

So you would have three 120mm front-to-back tunnels: one for the video card, one for the PSU, one for the CPU.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#87

Post by MBCook »

gh02t wrote: post #33
cabirum wrote: post #2

My motherboard says it has "reinforced" pcie slot :) But yea, I have to say peak power consumption has to be regulated so companies compete in efficiency, not raw power.

There sorta is a cap in place given that most residential circuits in the US are 15 or 20 amps. We're already not far off of that being a serious concern even on non-crazy builds. Edit: ok maybe crazy builds but still it's not that far fetched on current trajectories.

So 15 A x 120 V is 1800 W. The problem is even in a dedicated circuit you can’t use that continuously, it’s considered dangerous.

For continuous draw you’re limited to 80% of the line’s rating (in the US). People who have looked into EV charging have certainly run into this fact.

So the computer (and sound/monitor/etc) have to stay under ~1400 watts if it’s on a dedicated circuit.

1/3rd of that for just the GPU I’d pretty crazy. I honestly wouldn’t have thought GPUs could get this high.

Also, I remember my computers being hot in a small room long ago. A lot of the space heaters on Amazon are rated either 750 or 1500 W.

I don’t think I wanna be near a computer that hot.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#88

Post by doubled112 »

e1ghtSpace wrote: post #63
rybosworld wrote: post #59

I always thought it interesting how most tech companies prioritize shrinking the hardware but GPU's seem to be an exception.

Nobody wants a small gpu.

How small are we talking?

I really like the Mini ITX form factor and have multiple PCs that fit on IKEA shelves.

I prefer shorter/smaller GPUs. Better airflow. Easier at build time too.

My EVGA RTX 3050 is about the right balance.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#89

Post by Lramseyer »

> Should we have GPU VRAM slots alongside CPU RAM slots? Is that even possible?

I chuckled a little at this because I used to wonder the same thing until I had to actually bring up a GDDR6 interface. Basically the reason GDDR6 is able to run so much faster is because we assume that everything is soldered down, and not socketed/slotted.

Back when I worked for a GPU company, I occasionally had conversations with co-workers about how ridiculous it was that we put a giant heavy heatsink CPU, and a low profile cooler on the GPU, which in today's day and age produces way more heat! I'm of the opinion that we make mini ATX shaped graphics cards so that you bolt them behind your motherboard (though you would need a different case that had standoffs in both directions.)

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#90

Post by BoorishBears »

eigenspace wrote: post #25
dragontamer wrote: post #7

1. While I agree we're beginning to reach absurd proportions, lets really analyze the situation and think about it. 2. Are there any GPUs that actually have performed physical damage on a motherboard slot? 3. GPUs are already 2-wide by default, and some are 3-wide. 4-wide GPUs will have more support from the chassis. This seems like the simpler solution, especially since most people rarely have a 2nd add in card at a…

> 2. Are there any GPUs that actually have performed physical damage on a motherboard slot? I have a MSI RTX 3070 2 fan model. It hasn't damaged my PCI-E slot (I think), but it's weight and sag causes some bending that now makes it so that my fan bearing makes a loud noise if spun up high. My solution has been to turn my PC case so the motherboard is parallel to the ground and the GPU sticks straight up, eliminating…

I've seen a lot of people ignore which screws they're using to retain their GPU

The screw should have plenty of surface area to properly secure the card. You'll still have _some_ sag, but my 3 pin 3090 doesn't sag half as badly as examples I've seen of much smaller cards

Post reply on HN