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Address by the President of the Russian Federation

en.kremlin.ru

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Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#81

Post by alkonaut »

theironhammer wrote: post #45
ajl666 wrote: post #29

It's sad to see how easily westerners are mislead by our own leaders, who ape Soviet contempt for constituents and maliciously ignore voter inputs. You should at least make an effort to see things from the Russian point of view. To say there's nothing valid in the Russian state's actions, is really idiotic. 1) Are post WW2 borders sacred? 2) The dissolution of the USSR was chaotic, unnegotiated, and basically due to…

Excellent post. Thank-you for this. And to anyone who thinks taking the Russian point of view means you are Russian shill please view some John Meersheimer on YouTube. He also references prominent and respected IR American scholars who criticize American policy towards post Soviet Russia. It's been a disastrous mess. And now we face possible nuclear war because of arrogance.

Defending the invasion is being a Russian shill.

Arguing that policies have been poor isn’t.

It’s possible that this war could have been avoided through different policies, but this is an unprovoked invasion. Arguing it somehow has any responsibility outside Russia is like arguing rape victims should have dressed more appropriately.

Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#82

Post by ROTMetro »

kranke155 wrote: post #73
ROTMetro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny that in all criticism of Russia on HK, every opposing post has to include reference to Reddit. You are not going to manipulate people so easily. 'Oh man, come on guys, you're sharing positions with those simple minded Reddit posters'. How about you just make an argument on it's merits, instead of injecting your own bad take?

How about limiting this forum to what it’s supposed to cover?

Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.

I would say Putin escalating a major war in the heart of Europe and his threats of nuclear warfare with the West fall under 'interesting new phenomenon'.

Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#83

Post by mikeyouse »

netmonk wrote: post #70
mikeyouse wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love to ask the residents of Bucha or Izium what they think about the relative respect for human rights between Russia and Ukraine but of course the Russian military invaded their land and then murdered large swaths of their population and then buried them in mass graves. These things are just the weakest deflections in service of a psychopathic dictator’s imperialistic war.

Mickey what is the name of your drug dealer ? He sells good stuff it seems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves

Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#84

Post by Mikeb85 »

proxyon wrote: post #7
Mikeb85 wrote: post #5

All the doublespeak is actually pretty amazing to witness... We're defending Russia but also "liberated" Kherson and Zaporizhzhia... The west is threatening us with nuclear weapons... The regime which came into power in 2014 (nevermind that Poroshenko and that whole group were voted out in a democratic election where Zelenskiy and his party, who were notably more friendly to Russia at first, came to power)...

Quoted post unavailable.

You quoted something I said but seemed to miss the point.

Maybe it was a coup, maybe not (leaning towards no as it was a pretty popular protest). But Zelenskiy ousted Poroshenko regardless and absolutely no one doubts that Zelenskiy was elected.

Lots happened between 2014 and 2022...

Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#85

Post by Mikeb85 »

Garvi wrote: post #36
Mikeb85 wrote: post #5

All the doublespeak is actually pretty amazing to witness... We're defending Russia but also "liberated" Kherson and Zaporizhzhia... The west is threatening us with nuclear weapons... The regime which came into power in 2014 (nevermind that Poroshenko and that whole group were voted out in a democratic election where Zelenskiy and his party, who were notably more friendly to Russia at first, came to power)...

What's actually amazing to witness is an A-list Hollywood director making a documentary on the CIA financing of neo-nazi groups inside Ukraine and their involvement in the killing of Donbass civillians in the civil war now raging for over 8 years and being censored so effectively, few US citizen seem to know about it. Another fact I find amazing is the maidan revolution being televised for weeks across the globe on a…

Again though, Zelenskiy's government isn't the post-Maidan government.

It's not 2014 any more...

Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#86

Post by Mikeb85 »

kranke155 wrote: post #37
nayroclade wrote: post #18

Apparently, the size of the mobilisation will be 300k people, so this isn't going to be an overwhelmingly large force. The speculation I've seen is that this move is about 1) stopping the attrition of professional soldiers as their contracts expire and 2) providing manpower in logistics and controlling the occupied areas, so as to allow more rest and rotation of front-line soldiers.

They invaded with less than 300k. It is doubtful that Ukraine has a similar number of professional soldiers (excluding Territorial Defence ). It’s possible that this will give them an overwhelming force.

Ukraine has more than 300k because their survival is on the line and they mobilised en masse...

Keep in mind Ukraine had 45 million people before the war versus Russia's 144 million. But Ukraine mobilized absolutely everyone they could versus Russia which needs to keep their population content and downplay the "special operation".

Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#87

Post by Mikeb85 »

ajl666 wrote: post #29

It's sad to see how easily westerners are mislead by our own leaders, who ape Soviet contempt for constituents and maliciously ignore voter inputs. You should at least make an effort to see things from the Russian point of view. To say there's nothing valid in the Russian state's actions, is really idiotic. 1) Are post WW2 borders sacred? 2) The dissolution of the USSR was chaotic, unnegotiated, and basically due to…

All your points completely miss the fact that Ukrainians want to be free from Russia. They're not a pawn to be passed between powers, they're a free country.

Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#88

Post by ghostwriter »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #55
ajl666 wrote: post #29

It's sad to see how easily westerners are mislead by our own leaders, who ape Soviet contempt for constituents and maliciously ignore voter inputs. You should at least make an effort to see things from the Russian point of view. To say there's nothing valid in the Russian state's actions, is really idiotic. 1) Are post WW2 borders sacred? 2) The dissolution of the USSR was chaotic, unnegotiated, and basically due to…

Confused. post-WW2 borders are not sacred, but 400yo events are...the history of something is more important than the current reality...an independent self-governing Ukraine means less than 'who gave it to whom'. This is mostly political doublespeak rationalization. Reality: in this day and age it's not OK to begin bombing your neighbors for any reason. Never mind blamethrowing, equating old treaties to bombing, and…

> Reality: in this day and age it's not OK to begin bombing your neighbors for any reason.

1) you didn't say "bombing anyone for any reason", does it imply it's ok to bomb distant countries for some reason?

2) if (1) is yes, then:

2.1) what is the appropriate distance to a country to count it as distant?

2.2) what are the appropriate reasons and is this list of reasons exhaustive?

3) where has "this day and age" begun and why on that moment specifically?

Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#89

Post by kranke155 »

namelessoracle wrote: post #62
kranke155 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know those arguments and reject them. Hopefully you will too eventually. Feeling wronged gives Russia no right to trample on the sovereignty of 40 million Ukrainians - who wanted to join NATO of their own free will. Anyway.

Thats irrelevant to the decision points Putin has in front of him. It's pretty clear he thought he would just roll in and take over Ukraine in the first month, the West seemed to think so too. Now thats not true and it's clearly a mistake what are his options? Withdrawal and losing is likely to end up with him dead, maybe his family too. Keeping at it MIGHT still see him win the day, especially if energy prices in Eu…

Seems like the only thing that matters to you is Putin’s perspective and not the one of 44 million Ukrainians.

Re: Address by the President of the Russian Federation

#90

Post by kranke155 »

choko wrote: post #60
theironhammer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

There is propaganda abounds from both sides, but I have yet to hear a solid moral justification for Russia's invasion of a sovereign nation.

The only so-called “justification” flows like this:

- Russia is a Superpower - Superpowers have a “natural right” to a sphere of influence - therefore Russia has a right to a sphere of influence.

- In Russia’s view, Ukraine is within their sphere of influence. - therefore Ukraine has no right to sovereignty, and certainly not to join adversarial alliances. - in fact, according to current Russian doctrine, *the Ukrainian people has no right to even choose its own government* if their choice is a government that is not an ally of Russia’s.

This is of course a completely monstrous view of history and nations and it allows for no space for - y’know - Ukrainians to have any say.

You can justify any monstrosity by saying “well Germany is a superpower and it deserves the right to determine its neighbor’s futures”.

And of course this is all nested in the old adage “Well the US did it too - in Iraq/Cuba/Chile/whatever” which is just a fallacy not worth the words it contains.

This is however predicated on multiple levels of completely nonsense. The best explanation I’ve seen is Stephen Kottkin on Lex Friedman’s podcast.

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