Live data from Hacker News

FogBugz new owners attempting to auto-upgrade all free plans to paid

twitter.com

81–90 of 126 posts

Re: FogBugz new owners attempting to auto-upgrade all free plans to paid

#81
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are smart enough to avoid that. They’ll probably send invoices and some small percent may voluntarily pay to just make it stop quickly. Others will ignore, but their amount due will accumulate to a point that this company will be able to sell those accounts to debt collectors.

I would love nothing more to learn that a debt collector got screwed buying up these accounts, but how is that not fraud on the part of the company, since the resulting debts are clearly not valid?

Oh, it's totally fraud! Unfortunately it's a fraud that is easy to get away with.

Re: FogBugz new owners attempting to auto-upgrade all free plans to paid

#82
This is overt fraud, but borderline with subscriptions.

FIRST they requested users update payment information as if to continue their FREE accounts. THEN they billed users for a month's service.

It's called a "negative option" when the user has to do something to prevent additional charges. Normally that is illegal per US FTC (but legal in some countries). However, negative option contract terms ARE legal. That's when you agree initially e.g., with NYTimes that when your subscription is up, it automatically rolls over to paid tier X, putting the burden on you to cancel.

If, or since, most of these account agreements are 10+ years old, it's possible they ginned up some evidence of a negative option contract. It's almost certain no user has any information on the original terms of service. So then it's a question of who has the burden of proof, which leads me to wonder if there have been changes to that of late.

I hate to say it, but another option is that this company has been getting pushback or eviction from credit card issuers. This might be their way of imposing costs on them, to have to go through thousands of chargeback cycles, to spite the issuers pending their exit from the platform. It also might be a good way to get some cash from the issuers before declaring bankruptcy. Or, someone inside did this, on a Friday/Saturday, and they'll be gone before Monday with everyone's credit card information. Who knows?

To reiterate what others have reported:

9/17 title "Your Manuscript Account"

- $31.25 for:

- $12.50 9/17-10/17 5 users 50% off fogbugz

- $6.25 9/17-10/17 5 users 50% off time tracking

- $6.25 9/17-10/17 5 users 50% off wiki

- $6.25 9/17-10/17 5 users 50% off agile

9/16 title "Your fogbugz free subscription is expiring" (from a different sender)

"To continue using FogBugz, please add payment details to your account today"

(and if you didn't notice)

"Because you're already a valued FogBugz user, we've automatically upgraded your account to include up to five individual users with your new paid subscription"

Re: FogBugz new owners attempting to auto-upgrade all free plans to paid

#83
post #32

I got that e-mail too, on a decade-old test account: first an e-mail that reads like my account simply "expires" if I don't update. Then an invoice. Here's what I don't get: After a stunt like this, any reputation/brand value that you might have had is gone. So, the obvious conclusion is they bought the company purely to pull this trick. Any other value the company might have had is deleted. Can that have been worth…

Someone once told me that as recently as the late 2010s AOL was making millions of revenue off of old dialup accounts from the 90s that people just never cancelled and the cards just kept running. That's what they're probably shooting for here.

Very few of these 13 year old accounts are going to have valid card data on file, though. Any cards that were valid back then have long since expired. Seems to me that they're just spamming a bunch of people for no reason?

Re: FogBugz new owners attempting to auto-upgrade all free plans to paid

#86
post #85

USE FogShop DELETE FROM tblCreditCard WHERE ixCreditCard IN ( SELECT ixCreditCard FROM tblSubscriber WHERE fStudentAndStartup = 1 ) ok you won’t be charged now

simpler:

  UPDATE tblSubscriber
  SET ixCreditCard = -1
  WHERE fStudentAndStartup = 1

Re: FogBugz new owners attempting to auto-upgrade all free plans to paid

#87

Hail GDPR. I have a lot of trust and faith in the European corporate and business culture as far as these things go, but I'm happy I can make companies here delete my payment details, so tricks like these can't be pulled.

Yet GDPR is also what ruins the web browsing experience with all those idiotic cookies notices. Legislating technical details like that is never a good idea.

Re: FogBugz new owners attempting to auto-upgrade all free plans to paid

#88
post #86
post #85

USE FogShop DELETE FROM tblCreditCard WHERE ixCreditCard IN ( SELECT ixCreditCard FROM tblSubscriber WHERE fStudentAndStartup = 1 ) ok you won’t be charged now

simpler: UPDATE tblSubscriber SET ixCreditCard = -1 WHERE fStudentAndStartup = 1

Once a kiwi, always a kiwi!

Re: FogBugz new owners attempting to auto-upgrade all free plans to paid

#90
post #64
post #53

Let them charge you and file a chargeback on the credit card . With enough chargeback, they will have their account suspended.

I think they are smart enough to avoid that. They’ll probably send invoices and some small percent may voluntarily pay to just make it stop quickly. Others will ignore, but their amount due will accumulate to a point that this company will be able to sell those accounts to debt collectors.

If they’re still running the billing code I worked on back in the day, it’ll just charge all the cards
Post reply on HN