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Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

flyingmag.com

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Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#81

Post by krisoft »

ehnto wrote: post #41
kylecordes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a pilot, not even a little bit; But I was under the impression that pilot training has a lot of attention on recovery from a stall or spin, and unless at low altitude, those are generally recoverable (in a small aircraft). Would love for someone with actual knowledge to weigh in, thanks!

It can take time and altitude to recover a spin, and low altitude maneuvers are often where unintentional spins occur. That said, I don't know what the minimum altitude for a parachute deployment is. That'd be important.

There are no minumums per say. If you need it pull it. The higher you pull it the better it can work. They say the demonstrated parameters are: 400 feet in straight and level flight and 920 feet in spin.

https://flyasg.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/CAPS_Guide.p...

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#82

Post by piperswe »

CryptoBanker wrote: post #72
TylerE wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the insurance company would rather you pull the chute too... an airframe is a lot cheaper than multiple wrongful death lawsuits.

Can you sue your own insurance company for wrongful death?

No, but if you're carrying passengers their families can sue your liability insurance provider

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#83

Post by k1w1 »

plantain wrote: post #38
throw0101c wrote: post #36

AVweb did an interesting video a couple of years ago, "Are Planes With Parachutes Really Safer?": > The Cirrus line of aircraft have been flying for 20 years and although most people in aviation know they have full aircraft parachutes, it's fair to ask how effective these have been. With more than 90 uses of the so-called CAPS, has the system really saved lives? In this video, AVweb's Paul Bertorelli analyzes the rec…

The often not considered factory is the type of pilots that are attracted to (or advertised at) Cirrus's are generally considered to be high risk / low hours / non-current, so the accident stats are even more remarkable.

This is an often repeated, but completely false observation. The reality is that Cirrus and Diamond dominate the market for new piston singles [1]. If you want to buy a piston aircraft with the latest safety features, performance, comfort and training, then Cirrus is the number one choice. Cirrus has the number 1, 3 & 6 top selling aircraft (all have the same airframe and avionics with different engines) and thus dominates new sales.

The Cirrus SF50, which was the subject of this story, is the top selling light jet by a large margin too for many of the same reasons. It provides the best safety features, technology, comfort and price - though admittedly it does sacrifice performance to achieve the other attributes. This is aviation and everything is a collection finely balanced trade-offs.

[1] https://gama.aero/wp-content/uploads/2021ShipmentReport-02-2...

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#84

Post by k1w1 »

imglorp wrote: post #64
hugh-avherald wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no longer considered a last-resort measure. Cirrus training now says to consider it as a first resort.

As a glider pilot I find this mindset disappointing. Every aviator must have a constantly updating array of "what if" situations and planned responses: "Right now, where's my best landing spot and how would I get lined up for that?" etc. It leads to a chess-like thinking ahead mindset which brings all kinds of benefits. "Whelp I'll just pull the lever if something goes wrong" robs you of that. Automation and chutes a…

The thought process for out-landing a glider and landing a Cirrus in a field is very different.

A typical glider might touch down at 40mph, a Cirrus SR22 at 70mph. The glider might weigh 800lbs and the Cirrus 3600lbs. The energy at touchdown (remember velocity is squared!) is radically different. Also keep in mind that the wheels are only about 15" in diameter. 70mph in a typical farm field on 15" wheels is not going end well unless the field is perfectly smooth and firm. Not to mention the challenges of not hitting power lines, fences and cows while going significantly faster on approach (final speed is more like 100mph).

The parachute is there to take a situation where survival is a real gamble and turn it into a situation where survival is probable (almost 100% so far).

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#85

Post by numpad0 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #68
stevehawk wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant to say "single pilot passenger jet" that is fully certified, and if so, that statement is not correct. The Phenom, Citation, and several others are.

For a layman, what does certification mean? Certified for what?

I suppose GP meant to say “single engine non-turboprop turbofan/turbojet private jet that are FAA certified to operate in the US with appropriate civilian licenses”.

And while there are countless single engine jet planes and many small business jets without lavatory, there indeed aren’t many (“jet” engine && single engine && business jet) designs, let alone civilian type certified models.

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#86

Post by mumumu »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #70
rkagerer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the radio calls one-way, or can it understand directions from the air traffic control tower (e.g. Don't use Runway 6, Runway 8 is clear)? How's that work, voice recognition or teletype or something?

If a pilot were to call mayday and say they're landing on runway 6 everyone would be trying to ensure runway 6 was clear. The only way 6 would be blocked is if there was something already on it that couldn't be moved in time. Think of a mayday call as the lights and sirens of the sky.

I think this apply to any kind of emergency. Planes can squawk a codes to signal emergency w/o rádio and get the controller attention.

Mayday call is used on life threatening situations.

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#87

Post by CryptoBanker »

kube-system wrote: post #50
Scoundreller wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A parachute in the right place could help some of those landing/runway incidents too. But hard to imagine many pilots deploying the chute on a landing they thought they were good for.

Chutes take some period of time before they begin slowing the aircraft. If distance to impact is less than the distance to deploy the chute, the chute does not help.

Not true, I think. Even a partial deployment will help provide drag and reduce aircraft velocity

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#88

Post by mechanical_bear »

ehnto wrote: post #42
hackitup7 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very impressive to see how many people were able to walk away from these incidents, I wonder what the counts of injury or worse would look like without this system? Also it seems like these small planes have a lot of incidents, I'm guessing due to relatively inexperienced pilots?

General Aviation/Private Aviation is as dangerous as riding a motorcycle, per hour of participation. At least the last time I checked the statistics. It might have improved with navigation technology and flight planning software becoming more affordable.

The danger of riding a motorcycle is overstated, as those stats take into account riders who didn’t wear safety gear and/or rode inebriated.

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#90

Post by Syonyk »

rkagerer wrote: post #49
_s wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some more context - this the first deployment of the BRS system in their flagship; the Vision Jet. The Vision Jet is also the only turbine (jet) engine powered aircraft with such a system. It also boasts the Garmin Safe Return system; where the autopilot lands the aircraft in case of Pilot incapacitation - doing everything from radio calls, selecting the appropriate airport and runway, flying the approach and landing…

Are the radio calls one-way, or can it understand directions from the air traffic control tower (e.g. Don't use Runway 6, Runway 8 is clear)? How's that work, voice recognition or teletype or something?

Any reasonably sophisticated jet (of which this is clearly one) will have access to more or less realtime weather data, as well as NOTAMs (notices to airmen) regarding closed runways and such.

I'm not familiar with the system's details, but I would assume that it would pick the nearest towered airport with emergency services that met the requirements of the landing performance. Landing autonomously on a strip in the middle of nowhere, with nobody around, isn't likely to be particularly useful in an emergency unless the aircraft is no longer airworthy - and even then, if you can keep it in the air, going somewhere big with emergency services is a better idea.

A towered airport will have air traffic control (not all small strips do), and if the jet sets the transponder code to indicate an emergency, and is making blind radio calls about intent as to what runway it's going to land on, ATC will then clear the airport for the incoming emergency, and keep everyone else out of the way - and roll the trucks to meet it once it stops. I doubt it will bother getting off the runway autonomously - just come to a safe stop, shut down, and then it's someone else's problem to taxi it off.

Aviation is somewhat nice in that way. Emergency traffic has priority. If I were to be flying a Cessna 152 along Lake Michigan and had an emergency with O'Hare being the nearest airport, I've got priority, and the oceanic heavies will get out of the way until it's resolved. Now, you may have some serious questions about what the problem was, but this is the sort of stuff resolved after the fact, on the ground.

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