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Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

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Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#81
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily, if the URL has some absolute position like the ID of the first item instead of the relative number of pages between the newest item and the current page. I believe that Reddit does something like that (of course, only if you sort by new).

It’s situational ya but I was talking more like a product catalogue where items could get shifted around for promotional reasons or whathaveyou.

Not just product catalogs but sites like HN. “Page 2” on this site changes constantly.

… and honestly what does “page 2” even mean on a site like this? It’s almost a completely arbitrary distinction because the amount of items on each page is just a magic number. And your “page 2” is nothing more than snapshot in time… sharing a URL for “page 2” to somebody else is pointless because they won’t see the same content you did. Bookmarking “page 2” is pointless since it will change almost every load. Having a search engine index “page two” is pointless because “page two” won’t even say the same stuff by the time it gets exposed in the search page (you see this sometimes with SEO results that link to a “stories” page). In fact you might as well forbid search engines from indexing anything after “page 1”

And once you start thinking about it you might just say “fuck it… everything is the same ‘page’”. Instead of a “page” you have a viewport into a infinite, constantly changing pane of content. But since it is impractical to load an infinite list of items at once, you’ve got to load chunks of it on demand. And suddenly you’ve invented infinite scroll.

Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#82
post #20

The latest ikea redesign is , oh boy how awful. I wonder if they are losing sales already? There is zero reason for inf. scrolling unless we re talking about addictive substances like fb, tiktok etc. Instead , put plenty of entries in each page (it's 2022, we have good bandwidth, people) and use the tried-and-true, browser-compatible pagination. So that i can send a link to a friend, and i won't need to call her to e…

Sure but on a dynamic site, there is absolutely no guarantee that what’s on “page 2” for her is what you saw when you copied the link. It’s dynamic, after all.

Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#83

Infinite scrolling makes the contents of the page unlinkable, breaks searchability and caching. It always makes the experience worse for unclear benefits. What's the problem it solves? Not resending the header and the footer on changing pages? Really?

It's not solving a technical problem. It's trying to avoid points where the user has to make an active decision to continue looking at whatever is being served and thus have a chance to decide to leave.

Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#84
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also breaks the "virtual scrollbar". if you reload the page you have to start all over

This is my primary issue with infinite scrolling. However, I wonder if it’s mostly a problem with today’s web browsers. Heck—maybe it’s not even browsers, but websites. I’m pretty sure a website could change the URL as you scroll, so if the page is reloaded (or bookmarked, etc) you’re brought back to where you left off. I usually dislike it when websites mess with URLs, but this seems like an excellent use case!

It's a problem with web technologies in general. A real application framework would have hooks for knowing where the viewport is.

The web was designed from the ground up to display documents, so we would have to resort to URL hacks.

Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd note that Hacker News doesn't have this problem. Although Reddit's design decisions are almost certainly to accomodate their much larger scale.

I've seen the problem on Hacker News. A story which was at the bottom of my page 1 is also at the top of my page 2.

Yeah, that's fine I think. I mean the problem of the pagination "crashing" due to removed posts.

Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#86
post #4

> One disadvantage of Load More buttons, compared to classic infinite scrolling, is that interaction cost increases - users have to click the Load More button to load more content. Even the small interruption of clicking Load More might make users consume less content and cause them to switch tasks. I think this paragraph lets slip the main reason for infinite scrolling: it encourages users to consume more content, a…

I think the difference is whether the content is truly infinite or not. If there's enough content such that you could spend an unhealthy amount of time scrolling, then you are sacrificing your users well being for engagement. If there's a finite amount of items, the "expand the list as you scroll" approach is pretty reasonable. At that point you can't really call it "infinite scroll" anymore

Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#87

Infinite scrolling makes the contents of the page unlinkable, breaks searchability and caching. It always makes the experience worse for unclear benefits. What's the problem it solves? Not resending the header and the footer on changing pages? Really?

Pagination also makes things unlinkable, though. Not that I’m not necessarily defending infinite scrolling, but it’s a tough problem.

Pagination doesn't make things any less linkable than "infinite scrolling with content present," it just makes the limitation more apparent because a page seems like it ought to be linkable.

Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#88
post #2

Infinite scrolling is universally bad for one, very simple reason: It breaks the scroll bar. One of the purposes of a scroll bar is to indicate how long (and/or wide) some piece of content is relative to your window. Another purpose is to indicate your current X/Y position within some piece of content. Both of those purposes are completely broken with the use of infinite scrolling, because the length (and/or width) o…

Infinite scrolling is bad because it has ZERO respect for document boundaries. An "infinite" document is a travesty.

Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#89
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my primary issue with infinite scrolling. However, I wonder if it’s mostly a problem with today’s web browsers. Heck—maybe it’s not even browsers, but websites. I’m pretty sure a website could change the URL as you scroll, so if the page is reloaded (or bookmarked, etc) you’re brought back to where you left off. I usually dislike it when websites mess with URLs, but this seems like an excellent use case!

It's a problem with web technologies in general. A real application framework would have hooks for knowing where the viewport is. The web was designed from the ground up to display documents, so we would have to resort to URL hacks.

...I guess, to be quite honest, I'm starting to think we've reached the point where we ought to throw everything out and start over.

HTML can stick around indefinitely for legacy websites and truly static pages, but browsers should introduce a new standard DOCTYPE optimized for what we actually want the web to do.

Re: Infinite Scrolling: When to Use It, When to Avoid It

#90
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, yes, I agree. On the other hand, it seems to me that this is partly the fault of the scrollbar as an idea. How do you show the current position in a document for which, for one reason or another, you cannot instantly compute the visible height? I still remember an Android PDF viewer which would run through every page of a 2000-page document to get the page dimensions before displaying anything. (From wha…

> I don’t think we can special-case network streaming here (although it’s not unimportant either). The relative position inside an infinite stream is always 0, and the height of the scrollbar handle (showing relative size of the viewport relative to the entire document) is also 0. As the size of a finite-sized document grows, these problems also show. Problems are: you can't click on the handle since its size is clos…

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