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So you want to be a writer?

poets.org

81–87 of 87 posts

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#81
post #14

Apparently Douglas Adams found it very difficult to write. According to the biography by Neil Gaiman it was almost painful for him, every book or manuscript a chore. I'm happy he didn't follow the advice from Bukowski to just give up! Bukowskis poem seem to represent the romantic idea that art is divinely inspired and the artist is just a vessel. Maybe it really felt like that for Bokowski, while for others writing i…

It also overlooks the fact that if you don't put the hours in you will never be divinely inspired.

I'm reminded of the outcome of the two groups of potters in a pottery class, one group challenged to make a perfect piece and the other to make as many pieces as possible:

https://excellentjourney.net/2015/03/04/art-fear-the-ceramic...

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on. This sounds like something I'd like to read. Is this a Douglas Adams bio or a Neil Gaiman one?

Both! It's a biography of Douglas Adams written by Neil Gaiman (pretty early on in Neils career). It's called "Don't Panic".

How did I not know about this?! Fantastic!

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#83
post #20

Bukowski was an eccentric guy and often he used to contradict himself. This poem seems to encompass his life philosophy and which also happens to be written on his tombstone in just two words: "Don't try" However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. And this is a poem I really admire. ROLL THE DICE ------------- If you’re going to try, go all…

This poem seems to how I currently approach dating. Tinder autoswipe on. Immediate authentic message as to why I like the women I don’t unmatch. Women on the streets, telling them I find them attractive, and if they have time to listen going into detail why. Most of them it makes their day. I couldn’t care less if I get an infinite amount of rejections. I am not setting for less. I’m too old for that shit and I have…

I think you're being downvoted because your post is off topic.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#84
post #66
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact bukowski thinks that's antithesis to art shows in his sloppy and unconsidered writing. Sloppy and unconsidered is the whole point. The same way a punk song (1977-era not Green Day era) is not meant to sound like a classical concerto.

I mean there is no art there. There is art, there is angst, in OG punk songs, and the music helps. There is no art in Bukowski's poems. His line breaks are all over the place, he's cynical and bitter, and ... that's it. That's all there is to his writing. There's no nuance, no feeling, no nothing. At least punk songs have some kind of emotional resonance, or at the very least a good hook, you know? I guess what I'm s…

>I mean there is no art there. There is art, there is angst, in OG punk songs, and the music helps. There is no art in Bukowski's poems.

To quote art critic J. Lebowski, that is, like, your opinion, man.

Both laymen and a number of literature figures and literary critics have appraised Bukowski's work.

So there's that, it's not like it's some guilty pleasure or something only undiscerning crude fans appreciate...

>At least punk songs have some kind of emotional resonance, or at the very least a good hook, you know?

There's all kinds of emotional resonance in Bukowski's work. And I'm not great fan of him either, in fact don't even have a single book (while I have of tons of others poets of the era).

Just a random pick:

  the flesh covers the bone
  and they put a mind
  in there and
  sometimes a soul,
  and the women break
  vases against the walls
  and the men drink too
  much
  and nobody finds the one
  but keep
  looking
  crawling in and out
  of beds.
  flesh covers
  the bone and the
  flesh searches
  for more than
  flesh
>I guess what I'm saying is that every Bukowski poem I've read reads like one I wrote in seventh grade.

Then you either overestimate your sevent grade poems, or you wrote great poems in sevent grade and should have done something with them...

But, I think the more plausible idea, is that you have a different sensibility and find them beneath you, but more from a moral and/or formulaic judgement and a prejudice about how a proper poem should be...

To make an easy analogy, that could be the same way a "rawk" fan can't understand electronic music, and thinks it's all rubbish, even it's Aphex Twin and not Skrillex.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#85
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Adams books appear that way too. The writing is very contrived and stiff (even as comedic writing) - so it's all about the jokes. They're still great jokes and funny characters, but what's left as the strongest impression is them, not the writing flow, turn of phrase, or even plot. I mean that in the same sense a movie like Airplane! is just about stringing jokes together, and has no deeper plot or "cinematic"…

Thank you for your comment. It made me think. Although I do think it's a bit harsh to call his writing contrived or stiff , I did get a sort-of similar vibe of "individual moments stringed along" when I first read his books. I do disagree when it comes to overall themes. Granted, he was not the masterful storyteller along the lines of Terry Pratchett, but I do think he nailed some of the general sci-fi satire points.…

I started with Adams, and I still like him, just think he's not much for prose - whereas other comic writers are. That said, many sci-fi writers I like weren't much either, e.g. Asimov is very crude, it's all about the plot and ideas.

I think Gaiman is the best of the three in that aspect.

Pratchett is somewhere between Adamd and Gaiman in that respect imho. Though I could never like any of his work...

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#86
post #84
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean there is no art there. There is art, there is angst, in OG punk songs, and the music helps. There is no art in Bukowski's poems. His line breaks are all over the place, he's cynical and bitter, and ... that's it. That's all there is to his writing. There's no nuance, no feeling, no nothing. At least punk songs have some kind of emotional resonance, or at the very least a good hook, you know? I guess what I'm s…

> I mean there is no art there. There is art, there is angst, in OG punk songs, and the music helps. There is no art in Bukowski's poems. To quote art critic J. Lebowski, that is, like, your opinion, man. Both laymen and a number of literature figures and literary critics have appraised Bukowski's work. So there's that, it's not like it's some guilty pleasure or something only undiscerning crude fans appreciate... >…

okay ya got me! i've read one posthumous book by bukowski and heard that one modest mouse song ... i should obviously read more because the random pick you gave is, indeed, pretty good.

thanks for changing my mind :)

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#87
post #73
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I should read more Bukowski. Have you any recommendations?

I think a good introduction to his prose is Post Office, it's an easy read. If you like that, then you can move on to his other novels like Ham On Rye, which feels more real and dark, especially when he talks about his childhood. My favorite poetry collection is "Burning in water, drowning in flame", but most of the poems are thematically and stylistically aligned. He also wrote a ton of short stories, mostly dark an…

thank you!
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