Live data from Hacker News

It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

bae.st

81–90 of 474 posts

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#81

It does not surprise me that the right wing channers who started bae.st after getting banned from Twitter dislike the increase in moderation on other platforms. I'm no fan of Microsoft, but on the theory that you can judge a person by the quality of their enemies, Minecraft comes out looking positively beatific here.

The enemy of your enemy is really not your friend in this scenario.

I mean, when it comes to actual trolls complaining about getting kicked off of the platform, I have to conclude that Microsoft is at least doing one thing right.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#82
Modern-day MC is a bit out of my depth but are these bans enforced in a similar mechanism to online-mode checks? (which validates that the username attempting to connect to the server has authenticated against the Mojang login servers?)

More importantly could it be possible for a modified client or server to 'spoof' reports against an arbitrary user to 'frame' them? Disturbing possibilities here.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it "their" platform if the server is hosted by people who are not them on hardware that is not theirs? They are just selling a license to use their executables, no? Or should be (I don't play Minecraft)

In the event of abuse, parents won't draw that distinction and neither would a Twitter mob. Microsoft needs to be able to point to something concrete they're doing to keep kids safe or they're risking a scandal.

And who has been the greatest cheerleader of this totalitarian corporate control, where nothing happens on a platform without the blessing of its corporate master? MS have only themselves to blame, for they did everything in their power to erase that distinction.

Maybe in addition to educating users on inclusive language in MS Word [1], they could educate users about the very basics of how computers work. But that would go against MS's interests.

[1] https://www.windowscentral.com/new-microsoft-word-feature-wi...

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#84
post #2

Does anyone have any insight into why Microsoft thought this was necessary? Minecraft has been server-moderated for years now and has been wildly successful. I've never heard of any hate groups or even hateful servers (I'm sure they exist, but they don't make the news in a way that would harm Microsoft). Is there some legislation that would make it a liability for Microsoft to not moderate all the chat? This move jus…

There has been increasing abuse with gambling and predatory Minecraft servers marketed towards kids.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roblox has been mired in controversy for years for failing to keep their platform safe enough for the kids they target. I'm not familiar enough to comment on the details of that controversy, but I would be surprised if that didn't feature prominently in Microsoft's decision here.

I'm fairly convinced that some of the Roblox controversy is a witch hunt. I have no knowledge of whether there have been legitimate issues, but the outcry I've seen on social media discussing Roblox and child safety often looks like a concocted story, and last month my social feeds were flooded with parents encouraging you to spread the word that Momo[0] is now spreading through Roblox and causing large groups of kid…

Watch both People Make Games video about Roblox and try to argue that the company should not deserve all the public controversy it is getting. They are actively stalling any moderation and protection because their profit margin would be severely diminished. Children's safety versus money, the choice is oh so simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXlauRB1EQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTMF6xEiAaY

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roblox has been mired in controversy for years for failing to keep their platform safe enough for the kids they target. I'm not familiar enough to comment on the details of that controversy, but I would be surprised if that didn't feature prominently in Microsoft's decision here.

What if they ran official Microsoft servers with moderated chat, but also let you join custom servers after showing a scary warning message (and maybe checked your account birthday or something too). Would that not be enough to free them of liability?

Liability? Has a game developer ever been held legally liable for not policing their community hard enough?

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#87
post #8

Anyone who has ever seen an MS acquisition play out before knew this was coming. Minecraft has been open for some time, and that has an effect counter to the control that MS seeks over its products. "Embrace, extend, extinguish" has been the strategy for decades.

Nah, this take it just conflating unrelated historical talking points about Microsoft without regard to how specific things actually happen. A better question is: what incentive does Microsoft have to alienate its playerbase this way?

The answer is much more mundane corporate decision making dynamics: an online game played by children is ripe for abuse by predators, and someone representing PR or Legal won the argument that this functionality is necessary. It would have been great if someone representing Community, UX or Engineering could have won the argument, but sadly those arguments are harder to make in today's political climate, so that's where they landed.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#88
Hi, orsond from the fifth column here.

The Fifth Column is a Minecraft hacking and griefing group. We created Project Copenhiemer which is a Minecraft server scanning tool. Copenhiemer scans the internet every 20 minutes for minecraft servers, logs players, server versions, mods and more.

Originally we had created it to find players and grief their server worlds, highlighting how much information about players is leaked from Mojangs default server configuration. They have put some features into the game to stop this information from being leaked but have made it an opt in system which no one uses or is even aware of.

We have become increasingly worried about the direction of Mojang's safety policies and we believe they are just playing lip service to the actual problems at hand.

Online gaming and gaming coms has a seriously unaddressed problem with child safety. Mojang's reasoning for chat reporting is to protect children. Chat reporting does absolutely nothing to solve this problem. You can report people for swearing, drug/alcohol references, etc. You cannot report a player for child exploitation unless they use the chat system to do so.

As an example, I know one server admin that disabled chat entirely on his large server only to have pedophiles use in game signs to message and groom children over Skype and Discord.

If Mojang were serious about protecting children, they would stop developing their paternalistic chat surveillance system and split multiplayer children and 18+ play from each other.

For example, children should only be able to join under 18's Mojang hosted servers (realms) where conduct can be heavily monitored and 18+ players join multiplayer servers where children cannot play.

It is clear they have thought about this problem for a total of 5 minutes and have shut down healthy & reasonable debate about their solution to avoid embarrassment and scrutiny.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#89

I strongly disagree with Microsoft's stance. But I also think the issue is way overblown. You can simply mod servers so that they don't have this chat reporting. If everyone in the Minecraft community is so opposed, just create and exclusively join modded servers. Does not matter if they get labeled "Not Secure" if 90% of well-known popular servers have it, and there are tools and tutorials everywhere which make it s…

> revoking people's access to what they bought on shoddy evidence - if this actually starts happening to a lot of people I hope they get sued

I wouldn't put my money on them winning that one. It's wrong, but the laws were written by and for companies. I don't think a judge is going to say that a company who runs an online service can't ban users for violations of their policies. Hell, if the law cared about making sure companies couldn't arbitrarily cut off people's access to their purchases DRM would be outlawed.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#90
post #39

Never seen people make such a huge deal out of nothing like this before. Like this is borderline ridiculous. Its soo much easier to not get banned from something than is to. Literally just don't be an idiot. Its not that hard.

Imagine if suddenly the web changed so that it was possible to be banned from every single website (you can't even look at them) for your behavior on a single site by a moderator with incomplete context even if it was done in private.

This is a big change to how things work and it was forced onto the community.

Post reply on HN