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Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

incoherency.co.uk

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Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#81

Post by systemvoltage »

jonwachob91 wrote: post #75
systemvoltage wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hans seems like a cool guy, I watched his interview afterwards. PowerPlayChess covered the game, it was a magnificent performance but also not perfect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n27zd_dVtFw Those saying it he got banned on chess.com, it was total bullshit, here it is of how it happened live on Han's stream when he was an IM: https://livestreamfails.com/post/84343 More info here, if he was really cheating he wou…

Hans admitted to Chess.com he cheated, that's why he was allowed back in cash tournaments such as Titled Tuesday. Firouzja was 11 years old at the time of his ban and he was an unknown commodity at the time. He was quickly unbanned b/c it was revealed that he was just a kid developing very fast. Hans' situation and Firouzja's situation are not the same.

There is no direct admission. It is still a speculation: https://old.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/x6rxcx/fact_check_is...

At this point, I am just extremely skeptical of the narratives in chess. It is much like politics. No substance, all speculation. If I have to speculate, it would be that Hans is a weirdo and has no social skills, people are piling up on his atypical asshole-like personality.

If there is proof to any of this, we should condemn it. Cheating sucks. It is even more serious if Hans actually cheated in an OTB game, that would be a major violation of sportsmanship. It would be a career ending move.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#82

Post by FreakLegion »

systemvoltage wrote: post #69
FreakLegion wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was one of the best chess interviews ever It was, but for reasons having nothing to do with his analysis of the game. Stronger players like Hikaru have dismantled Hans' last two interviews pretty convincingly[1]. Those interviews and his history of being banned from chess.com seem to be driving the current speculation more than Hans' actual play. The interview after Magnus was great because Hans was saying thing…

I don't want to defend Hans further, but Alireza and many other GM's have been falsely banned on Chess.com. It means absolutely nothing . All I suggest is to stop this speculation, let's wait for evidence and if it is true, then fuck Hans. But at this point, I am just seeing a giant mob coming after him including on HN which is kind of appalling. We need to be better including Hikaru Nakamura, he seems to be also doi…

> Hikaru's accusation or speculations have also been mocked on Twitter.

Who by? Other 2750+ players? If not, then who cares? Hikaru's analysis of the chess is correct. You can analyze the positions with an engine to confirm. I checked, since they had the engine off after the Alireza game.

For example Hans (with white) said: "I did not believe in this position for black. I just don't see any universe where this is holdable. ... Instinctively I'm like OK, what is this? There's just no way. There's zero chance." But Hikaru saw immediately that this was wrong and black was actually winning. Even Alejandro wasn't having it. Sure enough, Stockfish has black at better than +3.

This kind of thing happens over and over in the last two interviews. Hans' take on a position is wrong, or he rattles off a line that just loses. It's not proof of cheating, it's just, to go back to squidbeak's post, proof that he isn't "able to speak accurately and in depth in his post game interviews".

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#84

Post by llimllib »

bo1024 wrote: post #79
icelancer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, somehow I missed this. Pretty wild accusations from Magnus and Hikaru on this. Hans just had a horrific tournament in his last attempt, which makes this whole thing pretty interesting. Hans didn't play engine perfect lines when beating Magnus in the Sinquefield Cup, though he obviously played extremely accurately.

It doesn't sound like Magnus has made any accusation, right?

He has done absolutely everything you can do to accuse somebody without actually crossing the line into directly accusing them. His meaning could not really be more obvious.

(My bias: I think Hans' analysis is pretty dubious, but if it were anyone other than Magnus I would give these accusations little credence. I think we who are not in the know should be giving Hans more benefit of the doubt than people generally seem to be giving)

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#85

Post by threatofrain »

searealist wrote: post #76
squidbeak wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the lines (and any cheat at this level would be canny enough to avoid the top few engine moves), there's something seriously off about Niemann's analysis - shallowness and incoherence covered over with bluster. Even Ramirez seemed disdainful of his reasoning about his position against Firoujia tonight. It's pretty grim for him if he really didn't cheat. He won't be invited to a tournament involving Magnus ag…

Are you accusing him of cheating today despite the 15 minute delay and heightened security?

No, the accusation is that the sum of signals doesn't look good.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#86

Post by searealist »

threatofrain wrote: post #85
searealist wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you accusing him of cheating today despite the 15 minute delay and heightened security?

No, the accusation is that the sum of signals doesn't look good.

It's binary. Either he did cheat today or he did not. If he did not then who cares what his post analysis looks like after drawing the #4 player in the world and being +3 at some point. The only reasonable analysis is to declare him a cheater today or discard the interview. To say that the interview would point to him cheating vs Magnus but not today is nonsense.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#87

Post by threatofrain »

stouset wrote: post #70
CSMastermind wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are "computer moves" which stand out vs human players. These normally show up in lines where there are many options of roughly equal value and the computer picks a move that is infinitesimally better but out of 'theme' with the position. They can also show up when for instance there are multiple checkmates in a position. The computer will choose the one requiring the least number of moves even if it requires de…

> There are "computer moves" which stand out vs human players. These normally show up in lines where there are many options of roughly equal value and the computer picks a move that is infinitesimally better but out of 'theme' with the position. To elaborate on this, humans use pattern recognition to identify themes within a position. This is a shortcut that prevents needing to mentally brute-force your way down an e…

If there is too little communication between you and behind-the-scenes cheating operator, you run the risk of choosing a move which requires perfect play for a long sequence, otherwise it would give away that you didn't understand the move.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#88

Post by systemvoltage »

FreakLegion wrote: post #82
systemvoltage wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to defend Hans further, but Alireza and many other GM's have been falsely banned on Chess.com. It means absolutely nothing . All I suggest is to stop this speculation, let's wait for evidence and if it is true, then fuck Hans. But at this point, I am just seeing a giant mob coming after him including on HN which is kind of appalling. We need to be better including Hikaru Nakamura, he seems to be also doi…

> Hikaru's accusation or speculations have also been mocked on Twitter. Who by? Other 2750+ players? If not, then who cares? Hikaru's analysis of the chess is correct. You can analyze the positions with an engine to confirm. I checked, since they had the engine off after the Alireza game. For example Hans (with white) said: "I did not believe in this position for black. I just don't see any universe where this is hol…

Still complete speculation, you need far more than bits of an interview analyzed by a popular GM for viewership to accuse someone in a professional OTB game in the legendary Sinquefield Cup.

You need real evidence of cheating. What concerns me is that we won't know the truth as GothamChess said. I am onboard with condemning Hans in the strongest terms if he was caught cheating in OTB game, this just seems like the Boston Bombers vigilante mob doing pscyhoanalysis on reddit and twitter. Terrible.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#90

Post by teaearlgraycold »

grog454 wrote: post #64
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #59

If one really wanted to cheat with a computer, I imagine it would be better to only carry around enough hardware to communicate wirelessly with it, rather than the whole thing. This would be harder to detect as the amount of hardware would be much smaller, and it would allow using a more powerful computer.

How do you prevent the detection of that communication?

Subspace technology
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