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Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

nytimes.com

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Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#81

Post by throwabro789 »

twblalock wrote: post #63
epgui wrote: post #51

I often really like this community, but I have found people here especially prone to falling to the "meritocracy trap". ie.: believing they are mostly where they are because of ability, worthiness or hard work, rather than mostly luck. That's really unfortunate, and results in a lot of non-self-aware political bickering.

On the contrary, the view that life outcomes are due to circumstances and luck leads to the denigration of success and competition, abdication of responsibility for one's life choices, and ultimately to really bad economic policy that will make everyone worse off. We now see this kind of thing even infecting our education system, and it's driving a lot of liberal people to the political right. Look at how Asian Ameri…

> even though they came… in poverty

That was always reductionist. Many emigres from China, Japan, Korea, USSR states, the Middle East and India arrived with high education levels. For 20th century society, where war could blow up or seize all your assets, education you ship with you in your brain is wealth that matters. Lots of uneducated people left behind in those countries, they just died or their life sucks now.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#82

Post by epgui »

throwabro789 wrote: post #81
twblalock wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, the view that life outcomes are due to circumstances and luck leads to the denigration of success and competition, abdication of responsibility for one's life choices, and ultimately to really bad economic policy that will make everyone worse off. We now see this kind of thing even infecting our education system, and it's driving a lot of liberal people to the political right. Look at how Asian Ameri…

> even though they came… in poverty That was always reductionist. Many emigres from China, Japan, Korea, USSR states, the Middle East and India arrived with high education levels. For 20th century society, where war could blow up or seize all your assets, education you ship with you in your brain is wealth that matters. Lots of uneducated people left behind in those countries, they just died or their life sucks now.

Indeed, and access to education is in fact one of the biggest barriers to vertical mobility in the US.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#83

Post by cee_el123 »

tharne wrote: post #59
epgui wrote: post #51

I often really like this community, but I have found people here especially prone to falling to the "meritocracy trap". ie.: believing they are mostly where they are because of ability, worthiness or hard work, rather than mostly luck. That's really unfortunate, and results in a lot of non-self-aware political bickering.

I often really like this community, but I have found people here especially prone to falling to the "no-dissapointment-in-my-life-is-ever-my-fault trap". ie.: believing that they are where they are due to vast and well-executed systemic conspiracies rather than mistakes, missteps, or a simple lack of motivation or ability. That's really unfortunate, and results in a lot of non-self-aware political bickering.

"no-dissapointment-in-my-life-is-ever-my-fault trap"

I am one of those people who certainly missed the boat due to my own missteps, mistakes, lack of motivation

But let's talk about those who don't/didn't have the favourable circumstances and opportunities I had/have

Is not being able to afford / be-accepted-for a life changing college degree that person's fault 50% of the time ? is it their parents' fault ? is it the grandparents' fault that the parents weren't better off ? if so ... where does this blame game stop ? at some point govt/society needs to step in and give you a boost regardless of your background

debatably, inheritance & land ownership are well executed systemic conspiracies

mistakes, missteps, lack of motivation, are all fine - but "lack of ability" ? you're arguing against yourself there - if there is such a thing as lack of ability - that's certainly a terrible reason to disqualify a person from having their basic needs met

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#84

Post by larsiusprime »

cee_el123 wrote: post #2

( submitting this as a reference to Piketty's whole school of thought not just the latest book ) ( Discussion prompt: what are some radical ideas for slashing poverty/inequality globally in 2 decades or less - assuming the public support/political will can eventually be obtained through effort/luck )

Georgist/YIMBYist synthesis with regard to Land Policy + Norwegian natural resource policy (and extending it to all artificial and natural monopolies)

https://www.gameofrent.com

https://progressandpoverty.substack.com/p/norways-sovereign-...

https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2022/05/17/norway-the-once-and...

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#85

Post by cee_el123 »

twblalock wrote: post #78
epgui wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between my comment and yours is that the meritocracy trap is a real thing that has been the subject of scholarly works. Also, I speak not from a place of disappointments, but rather from a place of great privilege. I am extremely lucky to be where I am (and yes, I worked hard for it too). For an overview and references, see: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy - https://en.wikipedia.org…

You are arguing against a strawman here. Nobody claimed we have a perfect meritocracy.

user: tharne said

> believing where they are due to well executed systemic conspiracies rather than their mistakes, missteps, or a simple lack of motivation or ability

the implication certainly is that if you don't make mistakes, missteps, work hard and have talent - in other words if you are full of merit - you'll assuredly end up in a good place

sounds like saying we live in a meritocracy

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#86

Post by whakim »

larsiusprime wrote: post #31

Just want to point out two things: 1) Rognlie[1] pointed out that Piketty's central premise -- that the returns to capital are growing faster than the overall growth rate of the economy -- falls apart when you properly account for asset class and depreciation. The accelerating returns are specifically to real estate , while the returns to capital (excluding real estate) are flat. 2) Tyler Cowen pointed this out on hi…

Actually, Piketty doesn't concede this point and makes the extremely important distinction between aggregate wealth and wealth distribution. What Rognlie does point out is the incredible importance of real estate in the growth of capital income - far more than Piketty originally credited it with in Capital in the Twenty-First Century. As Piketty points out in the interview, an explanation based around real estate literally cannot explain the growth in wealth share of the top 1% or top 0.1% or top 0.01%, because the wealthier you are, the smaller a percentage of your wealth consists of real estate. Which then naturally leads to the conclusion that Georgism/land value taxes are an insufficient tool for combating extreme inequality.

Also, non sequitur: while I enjoyed A Brief History of Equality, I feel that it tried to stuff too much historical detail into so short a work - it reads a bit like a condensed version of Capital and Ideology. I found the most enlightening parts of Piketty's previous works involved the tracing of political and economic minutiae across time and space, and I'm not sure I would have actually enjoyed A Brief History of Equality if I didn't already have that background.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#87

Post by cee_el123 »

endisneigh wrote: post #65
mijamo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a single example of any modern rich country where it is easy to enter?

The United States is relatively easy to enter. It's also relatively easy to enter China on a worker permit (not permanent resident).

:cough: H1B visa cap :cough:

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#88

Post by jschveibinz »

epgui wrote: post #82
throwabro789 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even though they came… in poverty That was always reductionist. Many emigres from China, Japan, Korea, USSR states, the Middle East and India arrived with high education levels. For 20th century society, where war could blow up or seize all your assets, education you ship with you in your brain is wealth that matters. Lots of uneducated people left behind in those countries, they just died or their life sucks now.

Indeed, and access to education is in fact one of the biggest barriers to vertical mobility in the US.

Can you please provide some data to back up this assertion?

It is true that life situations (poverty, lack of parental assistance, safety and security, cultural roadblocks, etc.) are impediments to successful participation in school.

But is “access to education” a a demonstrable problem? Many states offer very low cost or free access to community college higher education.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#89

Post by rgrieselhuber »

endisneigh wrote: post #77
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where do the people get their information to decide?

Same way people get their information to decide now for anything democratically decided upon?

Therein lies the problem, because in order to coopt the democratic process, all you need to do is control the flow of information and the narrative.

To wit: https://www.webfx.com/blog/internet/the-6-companies-that-own...

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth

#90

Post by cee_el123 »

ohCh6zos wrote: post #57
ForHackernews wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% inheritance tax on any estate value over $N (inflation indexed), use that money to fund "baby bonds" to give every newborn an investable trust fund. Nobody should get to be rich because of who their daddy was.

> Nobody should get to be rich because of who their daddy was. Why? It is non-obvious to me that we should have a collective say in why the rich become rich.

land and natural resources are limited in supply

they're also a big part of how humans fulfil the basic necessities of life

why should this "ownership" gained centuries ago through violence or social rank, be the reason for the average person of today having pay 50% of their wages in tribute to the descendant of that original conqueror/noble ?

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