Or if you make TC, from 'from programming to prison'.
From Prison to Programming
81–90 of 121 posts
Re: From Prison to Programming
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
God I fucking hate the response "learn to code!" to everything. People seem to think everyone being a programmer is needed otherwise humanity will fall. Honestly it is one of the stupidest things I have heard. Could more [good] programmers be a good thing? Sure, we can always do with more good programmers. However the truth is we need more of many, many types of people. Teachers, personal care workers, doctors, nurse…
> People seem to think everyone being a programmer is needed otherwise humanity will fall. Programming is truly fun for a very select group of people. (I count myself as one of those( But even then, as a job it is almost always miserable in some form. I encourage people to check it out if its for them, I dont think they should be gaslit into becoming programmers.
Yeah I encourage lots of people to try coding as a hobby the same way I encourage everyone to learn an instrument. Do it! Have fun!
But telling someone to learn to code as a career choice is only slightly less insulting than saying to learn guitar as a career choice.
Re: From Prison to Programming
#83(Long time member, but anon for this one, sry) I'll bite. True story. This company hired a young guy. Extremely likable dude. (100% female, if that matters) HR loves him, not likes, loves him. Undenyably charming chap. He's hired in a technical position despite having no real education in IT or Computer Science, nor any previous experience. Turns out he was involved in a fairly recent murder case, did pre-arrest and…
I think the parallels between your story and Rick's story are few; the only one I see is that they both spent some time in prison.
Rick was a stupid 17-year old kid who did a stupid thing, and ended up being hired as a software dev two decades later in his late 30s after growing out of his stupidness as many stupid kids do.
Your guy committed a calculated crime very recently as an adult, and generally seems like a conman and a bit of a twat from your description.
This is one of those things where the specifics just make a world of difference. "Spent time in prison" just isn't detailed enough to make any sort of judgement one way or the other.
Re: From Prison to Programming
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Teachers, doctors, nurses etc. can use code to simplify their jobs and make themselves more productive. Not everyone needs to be a professional coder, but being aware of what code is and how it works should absolutely be a basic skill. No different than reading or math.
I would be very curious how a doctor or nurse could use programming to improve their jobs. Aside from a conduit of fun brain teasers which may have some ancillary benefit...every doctor and nurse I know spends almost no time in front of a computer except for brief data entry. Actual real "medical" programming occurs by professional engineers in highly regulated environments (and for good reason). Teachers I could pos…
My cousin is a radiologist and I taught him a bit of python so he could create a GUI tool to help him write some reports. Apparently only about 5% of what he writes needs to be his own notes, the other 95% is boiler-plate that varies based on what his 5% is.
Before he used to have like 30 MS Word documents that acted as templates for his most common situations. He basically had a psuedocode workflow on sticky notes he already used that was really easy to turn into real python.
It's not a fabulous project or anything but he gets to spend a bit more time looking at each case, and also gets to go home sooner.
Re: From Prison to Programming
#85Oh yeah, that's gonna bring status to our profession! Can you imagine "Prison to District Attorney". Or "Prison to Chief of Staff of Hospital".
> Oh yeah, that's gonna bring status to our profession!
Who cares?
So what is your plan for former convicts? Have them in prison their entire lives? Only give them the shittiest of jobs for the rest of their lives? Send them to Australia? Outer space?
All other things being equal, I'd rather have a former convict motivated to make the best of things than some privileged middle-class millennial who thinks the world owes them everything.
Re: From Prison to Programming
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're forgetting we're talking about felons. I'm an underdog who is now a full-time software developer (thanks to the Underdogs & Rick ;) and trust me if I could be a doctor that would take a felon I'd be happy to try. But here in America, it's not that easy. Especially when you have laws that flat out bar you. So though you might be right for your average citizen but once you get to our end it's not the sam…
> I think you're forgetting we're talking about felons. Yes I made a mistake not clarifying I was talking in general about the push for learn to code programmes. For people incarcerated I agree a learn to code programme makes a hell of a lot of sense however so do many other career options as Rick mentioned in his reply https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32705015
HVAC is a good job.. so is a roofer.. and all construction.. and i used to do that and i dont knock it at all it kept my family fed BUT those are not careers i could recommend folks like me to try (because they're probably already doing that lol) Im just one of those annoying folks who just have to tell everyone especially felons to at least try coding. Ive already felt the financial impact in my life and its not the same.This stuff is life changing;)
Re: From Prison to Programming
#87Rick Wolter seems to be quite balanced. Read the last paragraph "Life’s Not Fair". Problem is that some people read his story and thinks. "Oh, so teaching felons programming is a great way to reduce recidivism". This kind of be-all-end-all solution always fails. Some years ago journalists in the US loved to tell coal miners that they should "learn to code" when the mines shut down due to Washington politics. How hard…
> "Life’s Not Fair".
"I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?'
So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03bOrvlAyeQ
> are the US willing to make the changes necessary to create meaningful impact on the rates of recidivism - or shall we continue to be fed "pull yourself up by the bootstraps! We found one guy who did it, and so can you!" stories?
I think what the US first needs is a general cultural shift towards crime and criminals. I don't want to generalize too much, but the general attitude is that criminals are barely human monsters, and that every bad thing that happens for the rest of your life is "don't do the crime then!!!111" You know, stuff like this.[1] And don't even get me started on things like "At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt" from last week.[2]
Funny how such an allegedly Christian nation doesn't seem to understand forgiveness. Guess I didn't read the Bible right shrug.
Things are changing, slowly, but there's still a long road ahead.
[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/08/...
Re: From Prison to Programming
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
I work with people in prison, or as they are commonly referred to within some circles, justice involved individuals. The issue here is not skilling these people in trades, it’s really about working on mental health and the underlying reasons why they are in prison. Until those challenges are addressed, these people mostly will not succeed. Many have not experienced much of a « normal » family life or friendships that…
There should be free transitionary housing on-prem on-site with the prison. You still get free housing and food and you’re not monitored / can come and go as you please. But it gives you a stable address and base of operations from which you build your new life. This isn’t halfway house which are dorms - you literally get your own space. I also have wondered whether probation officers have a positive or negative impa…
> You still get free housing and food
Re: From Prison to Programming
#89(Long time member, but anon for this one, sry) I'll bite. True story. This company hired a young guy. Extremely likable dude. (100% female, if that matters) HR loves him, not likes, loves him. Undenyably charming chap. He's hired in a technical position despite having no real education in IT or Computer Science, nor any previous experience. Turns out he was involved in a fairly recent murder case, did pre-arrest and…
> I have worked with charming psychopaths in the past as has anyone who has been in this business for some time, and you do get better at spotting certain things. how many charming psychopaths have you worked with ? And what have you spotted? I seriously laughed out loud when I read that. what is the point in your comment? To try and discredit me? what for? to harm underdog devs? you cant expect me to take that analo…
@RickWolter This has nothing to do with your story. I do not think I said anything to state or even imply imply that. It was not an 'analogy', not an attempt to 'discredit' neither you nor the organization. I have/had respect for both you and underdog devs, the work you have put in and the goals of the org. I do admit that the way you responded has not increased that respect to put it mildly. It certainly was not ''charming''. But hey, we all have our bad days I guess.
As to 'What is the point in your comment?'
I posted the experiences because it was/is a truly troubling situation for many at the company. Since this topic came up in general, thought I'd ask for advice from what I assumed people with more experience in these matters. Apparently, that is assumed bad faith. Isn't it sad that we have come to this where we can no longer can have questions or discussions? 'I think youre full of shit. I think you made that story up and I think you have some personal issue with me or underdog devs'? Seriously? I had never heard of you or underdog devs before this post.
I use a 'burner' because if I used my real account it would be very easy to find out the company and people directly involved, and that is not what I want.
And yes, you will find psychopaths in business. I don't think it is possible to have a full carreer without running into a few. And no matter how preparared you are, the best ones will fool you, sometimes even for considerable time. My advice there would be, if you see them decloack on others, do not assume they will not on you.
I feel realy sad you took this so wrong. I guess the net realy has no place for good faith inquiry anymore.
Re: From Prison to Programming
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I have worked with charming psychopaths in the past as has anyone who has been in this business for some time, and you do get better at spotting certain things. how many charming psychopaths have you worked with ? And what have you spotted? I seriously laughed out loud when I read that. what is the point in your comment? To try and discredit me? what for? to harm underdog devs? you cant expect me to take that analo…
@RickWolter This has nothing to do with your story. I do not think I said anything to state or even imply imply that. It was not an 'analogy', not an attempt to 'discredit' neither you nor the organization. I have/had respect for both you and underdog devs, the work you have put in and the goals of the org. I do admit that the way you responded has not increased that respect to put it mildly. It certainly was not ''c…
I misunderstood you. I thought the "But there seem to be too many notes here to not call it a symphony" was referring to me. I thought you were insinuating I was a psychopath.
I apologize. I clearly didnt understand what you were saying.
your reason for the burner makes sense. Im just so used to people using burners to troll that I assumed that was the reason. We have had more than a few people harass us by trolling our zoom talks and our posts.