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Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#81

Post by vanviegen »

dcolkitt wrote: post #58
Test0129 wrote: post #10

> Combined with sorting dynamics that concentrated talent and resources at some schools—and the emergence of tenure—this enhanced research performance. Something tells me this is only part of the story. Yes, after several wars we took in scientists who subsequently brought new ideas, improved teaching, etc to the country. But this ignores the biggest factor: US universities have tremendous endowments [1]. Having depl…

These are all good points. But what's interesting is that very similar things could also be said about the US healthcare system . And yet unlike American universities, it's not clear that American hospitals or healthcare is worldclass.

Most American universities aren't worldclass either. I'm not even sure if the average quality is higher than that of the rest of the developed world

But the US seems to have worldclass outliers in just about any field you can think of.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#82

Post by inglor_cz »

silvestrov wrote: post #34
abadger9 wrote: post #28

I've wished at least 2 dozen times over the last decade that the nordics had better research universities. I spent a portion of my life in Finland and the quality of life is so much better there, I would say it's probably unattainable here (the reduced crime, the affordability of everything, lack of homelessness, a more well educated population, etc.). Unfortunately the research being done at the top universities the…

Problem in Denmark is that every small town wants their own university. You can't have 5 research universities in a country of 5 million people.

The same trend can be observed in Czechia.

The EU seems to be rather obsessed with achieving an end state where a huge proportion of people (like 50 per cent?) have a degree, but this necessary leads to dumbing down of the curriculum and emergence of mediocre colleges.

We already have people with bachelor degree who can barely write gramatically correct Czech, even though they are natives.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#83

Post by photochemsyn »

Full text pdf here:

https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.35.1.185

It seems to be more about the development of the American university system during the 20th century rather than the current status of research in American academics (which is highly corporatized these days, with attendent quality and openness issues).

Also, the average quality of American universities isn't very high, from the paper:

> "The American system is well suited to producing top schools, although at the cost of inequality. To illustrate, del Corral (2020) compares the performance of Spain and the United States in a recent Academic Ranking of World Universities list often known as the “Shanghai ranking”... The United States accounts for 40 of the top 100 universities; Spain for 0. On the other hand, 83 percent of public Spanish universities (delivering in-person instruction) appear somewhere in the ranking that only 23 percent of their American counterparts do."

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#84

Post by dataflow »

asabjorn wrote: post #72
anonporridge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the scale of nepotism meritocracy, the US is probably much closer to meritocracy than most human societies have been. Are there examples of societies who have done meritocracy better, from which we can take ideas to improve our own system?

Do you think this remains true with DIE and affirmative action being implemented in all major employers, universities and institutions? It is not fashionable to point to the unmeritocratic treatment of Asians and white males, so I guess I will point out the emperors nakedness. Hiring people of all backgrounds that agree with a forced marxist outcome (diversity), firing people dissenting to Marxist forced outcome or s…

> Do you think this remains true with DIE and affirmative action being implemented in all major employers, universities and institutions?

Meritocracy is about how government employees (or those who aren't legally "employees" per se, but who still have the political power) are chosen, not about how students or private employees are chosen. (c.f. how the existence of religious schools doesn't imply the country is a theocracy, the existence of CEOs doesn't imply the country is an autocracy, etc.)

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#85

Post by georgeecollins »

abadger9 wrote: post #28

I've wished at least 2 dozen times over the last decade that the nordics had better research universities. I spent a portion of my life in Finland and the quality of life is so much better there, I would say it's probably unattainable here (the reduced crime, the affordability of everything, lack of homelessness, a more well educated population, etc.). Unfortunately the research being done at the top universities the…

As an American (who has spend time some time in Finland, btw), it is really strange how mediocre European Universities are. My children are travelers and I want them to try things so I thought, why not apply to some good school in Europe? And there are some good schools for sure. But it's hard to find a school in say Italy or Spain (which have some of the oldest Universities in the world) that can compete in research or faculty with say, University of California San Diego, University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana. Mid-tier schools in the US punch way above their weight for some reason.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#86

Post by gpsx »

dcolkitt wrote: post #58
Test0129 wrote: post #10

> Combined with sorting dynamics that concentrated talent and resources at some schools—and the emergence of tenure—this enhanced research performance. Something tells me this is only part of the story. Yes, after several wars we took in scientists who subsequently brought new ideas, improved teaching, etc to the country. But this ignores the biggest factor: US universities have tremendous endowments [1]. Having depl…

These are all good points. But what's interesting is that very similar things could also be said about the US healthcare system . And yet unlike American universities, it's not clear that American hospitals or healthcare is worldclass.

US Healthcare system is very good at what it does. It just isn't doing the right thing. Looking at it another way, the US healthcare system is far better at bringing in revenue than any other country's healthcare system, but like a factor of two.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#88

Post by Cwizard »

unmole wrote: post #59
Cwizard wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the comparison to GDP relevant? GDP is the amount of good and services a country produced in a year expressed in some currency. An endowment is an amount of money? Totally different things I would say? But I have seen this type of phrasing a lot in the media. I don’t understand the connection.

How do you feel about comparing debt to GDP?

It’s a better metric because GDP gives some insight in the potential income of a country. Although it must be coupled with current tax % to be really useful. Debt usually has monthly or yearly payments, GDP refers to yearly income. In that sense I see a relation. An endowment is just a pile of money, I don’t see a time element there.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#89

Post by systemvoltage »

csa wrote: post #71
systemvoltage wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> starting an idiotic xenophobic/racist campaign in Europe Today, Asians are fighting for equality in US educational system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_Fair_Admissions_v... This is most likely going to lead to striking down Affirmative Action. I suggest leaving emotions out of this and read the actual case materials. There is a lot of intellectual discourse, nuance and vigorious debate in those materi…

> Today, Asians are fighting for equality in US educational system You seem to have read the details of the case, yet you say that Asian Americans are fighting for equality by citing a case that has determined at the lower level and appellate court that no systemic discrimination occurred. Please don’t extend this meme… Asian Americans are doing just fine in admissions across the board at US institutions. 1. The appe…

> You seem to have read the details of the case, yet you say that Asian Americans are fighting for equality by citing a case that has determined at the lower level and appellate court that no systemic discrimination occurred.

"Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. President and Fellows of Harvard College (Docket 20–1199) and Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. University of North Carolina (Docket 21-707) are a pair of lawsuits concerning racial discrimination in affirmative action programs in college admissions processes. "

It is though. It is alleging racial discrimination. It is literally the first line on Wikipedia.

> Please don’t extend this meme… Asian Americans are doing just fine in admissions across the board at US institutions.

That seems completely orthogonal.

I don't have a horse in this race. I am a bystander telling people to go look up the case materials and study them for yourself as a matter of intellectual curiousity. Not sure what is the cause for your defensiveness, I am not even arguing those nor am I interested in it. I'd say, the fact that urging people to seek facts is causing an uproar for defense and a lash out, should an indicator of importance of this case. Please read my first comment and see if there is anything but factual matter. There is no "meme" here. As per the facts of the case, plaintiffs are fighting for equality and alleging discrimination. That's not up for debate, whether you support for side or the other. We don't need to argue the case here on HN, that's being done for us by the brilliant lawyers on both sides for us :-).

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#90

Post by asabjorn »

inglor_cz wrote: post #77
asabjorn wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think this remains true with DIE and affirmative action being implemented in all major employers, universities and institutions? It is not fashionable to point to the unmeritocratic treatment of Asians and white males, so I guess I will point out the emperors nakedness. Hiring people of all backgrounds that agree with a forced marxist outcome (diversity), firing people dissenting to Marxist forced outcome or s…

Your comment is unpopular, judging from the downvotes, but it is still thoughtful and should be debated, not simply downvoted. But you are touching topics that come close to religious faith for some folks, and in an irreverent way.

Marxism actually is a theology and by proxy wokeness as well, so it is not surprising you get religious zealots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqj-MKG9SnU&t=1s

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