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Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

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Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#81

The positive framing of this phenomenon is strange. Someone muting his criticism against an open segregationist because his voters buy sneakers is probably one of the more cartoonish examples of market logic and self-interest crowding out people's values. And I mean this even in a value neutral sense in regards to the topic itself. It's as if a devout Christian would start selling abortion pills or a pacifist became…

Yeah, reading his statement again, I realize he's not saying Republicans are people too, or businesses shouldn't discriminate, or any of another positive things he could say that I think others are reading into, he's basically admitting, whatever my values, I can make money. Some articles say he said it as a joke, but it doesn't really say what the joke was.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#82

There's a meme, where someone goes on a rant in the wrong location and someone responds "Sir, this is a Wendy's". Maybe we need one for "Sir, this company sells shoes". It isn't clear to me why a person trying to sell shoes needs to take a stand about one politician or another. Except for the fact that there is only one thing partisans hate more than their enemies - the people who aren't part of the partisan fray.

Nike is not a shoe company, they are an image company who use shoes as their medium.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... brought on Kaepernick not long after, the Nike Store in Scottsdale, Arizona 'went out of business'. I wondered if it was correlated.

If your statement is true, it sounds like it was for sure correlated.

it could have been for different reasons though: it was in an expensive spot with multiple floors, so maybe just had not been profitable anyway.

Within the last year, they opened up a way less nice Nike store about 5 miles away in a different outdoors mall, but it's more like the Nike outlets i've seen elsewhere.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#84
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Right now there is only one really extreme "side" in the U.S. I urge you to consider that this attitude is the very problem under discussion.

If we look back at my example. Would you say the same thing to the Ukrainian making that point? If not, we agree that there is a line at which politics end and extremism begins, which has nothing to do with attitude. Personally, I find it obvious that Republicans have crossed that line. Maybe they will come back, maybe not. This also doesn't mean, one shouldn't try to discuss or interact with them, but be wary of wha…

> Personally, I find it obvious that Republicans have crossed that line. Maybe they will come back, maybe not

And many Republicans "find it obvious" that the Democrats are going to destroy the USA by supporting insert whatever Republicans are angry about today. Gay Rights, or something

As Objectively Correct you think you are, they think they are equally Objectively Correct. You are being equally dismissive of them as they are of you, and therefore you are also part of the problem.

Seeing their side doesn't mean you are obligated to COMPROMISE with them, but as long as you are dismissing them outright as having "crossed a line", you're just as extreme as they are.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#85

There's a meme, where someone goes on a rant in the wrong location and someone responds "Sir, this is a Wendy's". Maybe we need one for "Sir, this company sells shoes". It isn't clear to me why a person trying to sell shoes needs to take a stand about one politician or another. Except for the fact that there is only one thing partisans hate more than their enemies - the people who aren't part of the partisan fray.

"Burgers?" https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/are-you-sure-this-will-help-u... The meme creator is unfortunately quite racist. I see it is a problem if extremists are the only ones comfortable making certain obvious true statements. It attracts the support of people who might otherwise remain moderate.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sir-this-is-a-wendys

is the meme OP was referring to.

I do like your observation that "only extremists feel comfortable making certain obvious true statements"

I'm going to have to think on that one. It seems to me that is a very bad place for public discourse to be in.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#86
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I find is convincing Republicans to even talk and think about the consequences of something. Abortion for example, they just hardline "no". It's very exhausting.

What other examples can you think of? And how many Republicans have you tried discussing the consequences of abortion with? Recent polling[1] doesn't seem to agree with your characterization, so maybe you have just had bad luck with your delivery or respondents? 1: https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/HHP...

Guns

"Freedom of speech" to say _whatever_ on twitter etc

Vaccines being good

Anything that helps another person is "socialism"

Not sure about a poll of 1300 people, have you tried changing a hardline Republican's mind?

I dunno, I grew up in PA/OH so I have a lot of republican friends. I gave up trying to show them the other side.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#87

Businesses are supposed to be separate entities from the individuals who own them. I don't understand why people think businesses need to be political. If that's the case then just start your own Political Action Committee.

The zealot's standard rejoinder is that everything is political. See, also, you're either with us or against. What contemporary liberal politics has brought to the table is "science" that purports to show a simple, direct link between rhetorical opposition or even mere abstention, and directly consequential, imminent harm. See, e.g., claims re trans-gender suicides, or just today insinuations that compromises made in the recently passed Inflation Reduction Act will kill minorities--https://www.npr.org/2022/08/17/1117725655/the-spending-bill-...

These are liberal analogs to, e.g., conservative claims about the how Civil Rights Act would directly lead to blacks and latinos raping and murdering whites, or in more recent years similar insinuations (and sometimes outright claims) regarding border controls. When you can draw a straight line between abstract policy preferences and the imminent death of an untold number of people, dissension becomes intolerable. Most people tend to agree with that sentiment on its face--that's why political rhetoric so often regresses to such stark terms--the sticking point is what that line looks like, if it even exists at all.

EDIT: I keep forgetting that the misuse of science is nothing new, so liberals aren't actually bringing anything new to the table in that regard. Of course science (certainly poor science, yet sadly mostly only in hindsight generally recognized as pseudo-science or non-science, e.g. Social Darwinism) was used to justify those example conservative claims, as well countless similarly specious claims from across the political spectrum going as far back as one cares to look, but particularly after empiricism displaced both institutional religion and rationalism as the fount of categorical truths.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#88
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we look back at my example. Would you say the same thing to the Ukrainian making that point? If not, we agree that there is a line at which politics end and extremism begins, which has nothing to do with attitude. Personally, I find it obvious that Republicans have crossed that line. Maybe they will come back, maybe not. This also doesn't mean, one shouldn't try to discuss or interact with them, but be wary of wha…

> Personally, I find it obvious that Republicans have crossed that line. Maybe they will come back, maybe not And many Republicans "find it obvious" that the Democrats are going to destroy the USA by supporting insert whatever Republicans are angry about today. Gay Rights, or something As Objectively Correct you think you are, they think they are equally Objectively Correct. You are being equally dismissive of them a…

Saying they crossed a line or even declaring something extreme doesn't mean I can't see or understand their side. Let's bring it back to my example: I understand and see why Russians think they are fighting a just war. If possible, I would want a peaceful diplomatic solution and being open to talks is the first step. That however doesn't mean that they aren't occupying an extremist position.

I think me, labeling one side extreme, implied they should be ignored or shunned etc. This is not the case. I only labeled them extreme.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#89

The positive framing of this phenomenon is strange. Someone muting his criticism against an open segregationist because his voters buy sneakers is probably one of the more cartoonish examples of market logic and self-interest crowding out people's values. And I mean this even in a value neutral sense in regards to the topic itself. It's as if a devout Christian would start selling abortion pills or a pacifist became…

I don’t think that’s true — there’s second order effects in play, beyond shallow virtue signaling. People respect Jordan unlike Kapernick or James, because Jordan didn’t hypocritically involve himself in politics — unlike those two who haven been outspoken against racism and slavery… except for the slaves making the shoes they advertise. They’re perfectly fine profiting from those slaves. - - - - - I also think your…

I would love to know how one generalizes & measures a respect delta between Labron James and Jordan, and then correlate it to social stances. Tiger Woods took issue with racism and exclusion in golf, no one is going around claiming Nicklaus is more widely respected because he doesn’t have a Nike sponsorship lol.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#90
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are a politician, there is no reason for anyone to know your own personal political views. Any announcement of such views is signaling. It serves no other purpose.

Let’s say I’m a corporation who gives marital benefits. But some of my employees can’t get married because the state doesn’t allow gay marriage. Should the corporation not take a stance? Should corporations not have taken a stance about doing business in South Africa before apartheid was abolished?

Taking a stance does nothing in either of these scenarios except send signals to people.
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