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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#81

Post by albertopv »

hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #42
elif wrote: post #36

The perspective of this piece is a little suspicious: -ferrari still maintain that they will never produce electric cars -the concept of hub motors is a fad that has come and largely gone. Putting the motors inside the wheels leads to reliability concerns -motors with smaller diameter will need more power for the same performance of a larger diameter motor, and the battery is the heavy part Normally each of these i'd…

Ferrari has no choice. They’ll eventually be banned on noise pollution grounds/ be too low performance to be considered super cars if they stick with internal combustion.

When you buy a Ferrari you buy an experience, history etc, engine sound is good part of that experience. No way Ferrari will be banned for noise or pollution. On road a Ferrari noise is quite low when running low speed. Pollution is non existent for cars that drive few kms per year.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#82

Post by robin_reala »

albertopv wrote: post #81
hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ferrari has no choice. They’ll eventually be banned on noise pollution grounds/ be too low performance to be considered super cars if they stick with internal combustion.

When you buy a Ferrari you buy an experience, history etc, engine sound is good part of that experience. No way Ferrari will be banned for noise or pollution. On road a Ferrari noise is quite low when running low speed. Pollution is non existent for cars that drive few kms per year.

Ferrari already sell enough cars in the EU per year to be subject to the 2030 ban on ICE powertrains. If they drop their manufacturing by 5-10% then they could conceivably fall into the 2035 bucket.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#83

Post by clouddrover »

awestroke wrote: post #79
gridder wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

Because it is prohibitively expensive, and you get more data with multiple cameras than with one single lidar

It didn't prohibit Mercedes:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39966189/2022-mercedes...

https://electrek.co/2022/07/22/mercedes-drive-pilot-review/

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#84

Post by speedgoose »

hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #42
elif wrote: post #36

The perspective of this piece is a little suspicious: -ferrari still maintain that they will never produce electric cars -the concept of hub motors is a fad that has come and largely gone. Putting the motors inside the wheels leads to reliability concerns -motors with smaller diameter will need more power for the same performance of a larger diameter motor, and the battery is the heavy part Normally each of these i'd…

Ferrari has no choice. They’ll eventually be banned on noise pollution grounds/ be too low performance to be considered super cars if they stick with internal combustion.

They actually managed to get a luxury bullshit ICE vehicles exception for the upcoming European ban of ICE cars.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#85

Post by NoPicklez »

devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

With regards to your general rule statement.

There has been a lot of discussion/reporting around the manufacturing and design of Tesla cars that is way behind that of the likes of Toyota, Nissan and Honda. The computer systems are state of the art, but in with regards to the design and manufacturing of its chassis, Tesla has been historically behind the times.

Just because Tesla doesn’t do it, doesn’t mean it’s not the right way to go.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#86

Post by __m »

awestroke wrote: post #79
gridder wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

Because it is prohibitively expensive, and you get more data with multiple cameras than with one single lidar

Not at night

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#87

Post by paganel »

elif wrote: post #36

The perspective of this piece is a little suspicious: -ferrari still maintain that they will never produce electric cars -the concept of hub motors is a fad that has come and largely gone. Putting the motors inside the wheels leads to reliability concerns -motors with smaller diameter will need more power for the same performance of a larger diameter motor, and the battery is the heavy part Normally each of these i'd…

“ICE propaganda” is something that I would actively follow and support, I’d even put my vote for a political platform that would have it front and center. Unfortunately this article was nothing of the sorts, as the future of vehicle transportation doesn’t depend on its luxury makers.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#88

Post by ricw »

NoPicklez wrote: post #85
devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

With regards to your general rule statement. There has been a lot of discussion/reporting around the manufacturing and design of Tesla cars that is way behind that of the likes of Toyota, Nissan and Honda. The computer systems are state of the art, but in with regards to the design and manufacturing of its chassis, Tesla has been historically behind the times. Just because Tesla doesn’t do it, doesn’t mean it’s not t…

That may have been the case 5 years ago, but these days it’s the opposite. Look at the Munro live Tesla tear downs on YouTube, particularly the megacastings structure, the battery packs or heat pumps. It’s night and day.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#89

Post by arcticbull »

gzer0 wrote: post #80
gridder wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

Not even close. Psuedo-LiDAR approach is the way to go and everyone knows it. Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it.

Well, except not running over mannequins of kids. [1] You know, the simple stuff.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aMWERzT7SQ

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#90

Post by missjellyfish »

it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

> Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

So, a bus?

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