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Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

bbc.co.uk

81–90 of 360 posts

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#81
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the difference between free speech and malicious libel and slander. Jones is a total psychopath. What he did to those grieving families is just beyond despicable. Mentally abusing children who survived a murder rampage is way way beyond just dirty politics, propagandizing, and typical grifting.

I can’t tell if he’s a psychopath or mentally ill. Maybe whoever put the guy on air seems responsible on some level as well. We love to point the finger at this guy but a lot of people were responsible for many, many insane productions by him, and no one questioned if it should be aired long enough to realize this would be harmful to the victims’ families.

I don’t really know why it’s so hard to pinpoint what Alex Jones is or does what he does.

He’s a professional troll, as in says things he doesn’t necessarily believe in himself but fit whatever public brand he is trying to sell because it brings him attention which in turn makes him money.

Sometimes it seems like we have all these words to describe people exactly like him aka troll, LARPer, astroturfer, and yet for whatever reason when we actually see someone doing any of these things we somehow think he’s actually crazy and believes all these conspiratorial things when the most likely explanation is that it’s all just a bit.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a potentially genuine mistake in their opinion/judgement The standard for defamation in the case of public figures (for which the parents of the Sandy Hook victims probably qualify because it's that broad) is "actual malice"--the speaker needs to either know that the statement was false (at the time it was made) or entertained serious doubts as to its veracity. For non-public figures, it's generally lowered to "rec…

> The standard for defamation in the case of public figures (for which the parents of the Sandy Hook victims probably qualify because it's that broad) is "actual malice" That's true, but also somewhat irrelevant since Jones suffered default due to wilfully refusing to comply with court process; there was no trial on liability, only damages.

I was answering for the general case more than the specifics of the lawsuits that Jones faces; you've already covered the defaulting aspect well.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#83
post #26

What happened to his lawyer, who accidentally (?) sent his phone conversations to the opposing party?

There's an order to show cause in Connecticut court, where he'll have to make a case for the court not sanctioning him for having the medical records from the CT case (to which he is not a party). So that drama is ongoing.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#84
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone have a link to what he actually said? Now I’m curious. I hadn’t really been aware of this most recent Alex Jones shenanigan.

Quoted post unavailable.

He claimed loudly and often for years; "at one point" makes it sound like an off-hand remark he made once or twice, but that's not really the case.

He started backpeddling the minute people filled suit, as any true man of principle fighting the bad guys would do.

For years he made factual claims about specific people that are demonstrably and provably untrue (i.e. that they're "crisis actors" who faked the lot), which does not fall under Free Speech, and did cause damages because several of Jones' followers did harass various survivors and family members with their bullshit.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#85
post #75

Let me know once he actually transfers a non-zero sum towards either the punitive or compensatory amounts.

Generally, to appeal a judgment, you need to post a bond. Otherwise, the other side can move to enforce the judgment. This seems to be the case in Texas, though it seems the amount of the bond is capped at 50% of his net worth.

Per the NYT [1], "his and Free Speech Systems’ combined net worth likely fell between $135 million and $270 million."

So depending on what that split is, and how the court considers Free Speech Systems's worth in relation to him, that cap wouldn't necessarily apply.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/05/us/alex-jones-finances.ht...

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not summary judgments, they are default judgments. Alex Jones repeatedly failed to comply with court orders to produce evidence, which resulted in him being in default of the court. IANAL, but FRCP rule 37(b)(2)(A)(vi) very clearly indicates that a default judgment "against the disobedient party" is a permissible outcome of "[failing] to obey an order to provide or permit discovery". Essentially, Jones was…

> but FRCP rule 37(b)(2)(A)(vi) very clearly indicates that a default judgment "against the disobedient party" is a permissible outcome of "[failing] to obey an order to provide or permit discovery Nitpick: this is a state case and the Federal Rules don't apply, but I think most US jurisdictions have very broadly similar default rules.

Thanks for the clarification! The equivalent rule in the Texas RCP is 215.2(b)(5), "If a party or an officer, director, or managing agent of a party...fails to comply with proper discovery requests...the court in which the action is pending may, after notice and hearing...[render] a judgment by default against the disobedient party".

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The court is part of the government.

That's a false equivalence. The court mediates the case between private parties. That's what civil court does. This is not a trial between 'the people' (the State) and Alex Jones. It's between some of the parents of the Sandy Hook massacre and Alex Jones. Jones is free to say whatever and the state cannot make laws about what he can say or cannot say, but that doesn't stop private individuals from suing him and winni…

to be fair, whilst it's true the distinction is hugely important to US concepts of free speech, it's also true it's not necessarily as material as it might seem. The state is composed of people, who have the right to sue their critics for alleged slander/libel (quite a lot of political speech involves making adversarial claims about people or corporate entities which could theoretically be ruled as malicious and factually untrue). Politicians suing other politicians or critics is unusual rather than not permitted in the US, but in other places like Singapore tort law is used consistently against prominent critics. It's possible for civil courts to be consistently biased in favour of politically-connected individuals and companies and for the consequences for criticism of them to be financially ruinous, and possible for actual criminal speech offences in other jurisdictions to have [lower] purely financial penalties, stronger presumptions in favour of the defendant and more scrupulously independent judicial processes.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#88
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone have a link to what he actually said? Now I’m curious. I hadn’t really been aware of this most recent Alex Jones shenanigan.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is just a terrible take.

You should read one of the billion case summaries published this week. Maybe you'll see why "tons of people" have reacted the way they have.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#90
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Why are you asking this over and over when you're just a couple of Google searches away from both trial videos and his damaging content?

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